Frontline PvP: Tips for Dragoons

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

Think you have some numbers off all over the place here.

i80 "high" values for body/leg are 30 crit/speed, 21 det. "Low" values are 21 crit/speed, 15 det. Ironworks legs are Det high / Crit low, so in i80 sync it has 21 Det and 21 Crit. Unless you're implying gear syncing down/up works differently than the rest of the game.

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Yep, ilevelsync and stat modifiction work slightly different than people think, ilevelsync drops stuff to the secondary stat cap (there is no "low" cap, the dev team just assigns green and blue gear at a second secondary at 2/3 cap) which is 30 crit/speed/parry/accuracy and 21 det for legs and body at i80. While the morale boost seems to increase the stats by the difference between the items ilevel and its PvP ilevel.

This effect was discovered when someone noticed that the Hellwolf and Werewolf accessories were syncing weirdly.

It doesn't matter if it's synced to i80 or i110. The secondary stats get capped at the highest amount the item level its being synced to is allowed to have, not by a ratio of the original gear's values.

The main point he was making is moral does actually do something even on gear higher than i70, because the moral effect takes place before the sync. There's some posts in the Frontlines Twinking thread that have more information if it suits you.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

Absolutely ALWAYS slap on these debuffs at the start of any encounters, especially against healers. The dots keep ticking even when people peel you off using cc abilities or sprint away from you so there is no real reason not to use them (especially now that they abolished the directional requirements to inflict the debuffs). Personally when I engage a healer I like to start Heavy Thrust > Impulse Drive > Disembowel > (Blood for blood if its up) > Chaos Thrust > Plebotomize > Feint. At this point you can start going into the full thrust combo and if you're currently the only one attacking the healer I often find that they get lulled into having this false sense of security in thinking you arent much of a threat dmg wise since the opening debuff combos wont generally lop off huge chunks of hp. The less experienced healers will make the mistake of letting their hp drop to near half hp as a result of the dots and ur full thrust combos and when you see this happen you can immediately stun them and kill them by expending ur pvp cooldowns (and jumps if need be) in quick succession. Obviously in one on one scenarios against other dps where the exchange wont last nearly as long you can forgo the dots in favor of just bursting them dead depending on what cooldowns are available.

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No doubt. I was only debating it cause I'm concerned about zerging people down and being able to burst fast enough. WHMs especially cause I run full rotations and it feels like they never die lol. If you have too many things on cool down your basically boned as DRG in my experience.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

In terms of frontlines everything is item level synced so ironworks gear isnt necessarily better than i90 gear as both will be level synced to ilvl 80. The choice on what to wear primarily falls on what stats appear on the items (det, crit, skill speed etc). Alot of the ironworks gear is heavy on accuracy and while you do need some minimum level off accuracy in frontlines to make sure you dont miss (I cant recall exact number maybe someone else can chime in on that) you dont wanna have excessive amounts of it as it becomes a waste of a stat slot once ur over that acc. Also morale on gear ilvl 90, 100 and 110 do nothing in frontlines. It only works on ilvl 70 pvp gear in frontlines.

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Well that brings up the question whats BiS then for DRG in PvP? Is the Snaketongue/Snakeliege and the i110 accessories even worth it then? I was considering loading up on PvP gear but people made it seem like it was a waste of time.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

I personally don't find ninjas that deadly to me in one on one situations as drg UNLESS they manage to hit you with that dmg taken debuff from trick attack and even then i can still burst them to death before they're able to kill me should i possess most of my cool downs. They are far more annoying when they realize they cannot kill you and try to run away as their innate increased movement speed, shukuchi, and their ability to bind u every 20 seconds (this is by far THE MOST annoying ability ninja possess to me) make it extremely difficult to keep up unless you have those jumps available along with weapon throw (though this will be purified off most times), purify and/or fetter ward. I still don't get why SE decided to give a melee both stun AND cc abilities but in any case unless you have those abilities I mentioned earlier available its best to just let them run and not waste time chasing.

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Thats basically my biggest problem with them 1vs1 if no one else is around. If I have support from a healer a NIN is cake mix for the most part. They're nice a squishy just like BRDs.

However, If I have too many CDs its basically an uphill battle because they can stun, bind, teleport etc. Usually what happens to me is he tries to bind me, I hit Elusive jump, then I get Teleport > Stunned, I hit Purify > Leg Sweep to keep from getting zerged myself and go into my rotation, but by the time I hit Disembowl its like I'm nearly half dead after there first combo > raiton. From there it usually turns into how many Jumps and other CDs I can pop to zerg, zerg, zerg and this is if I don't get bound yet again. With all of their tool set if I don't have my own stuff ready the chance that I may not win is higher than I'd like.

I've even debated switching to Keyboard and Mouse so I can pop CDs out faster, and I've never played with a KB+M for any game in my entire life lol. I'm wondering if its even worth it to try, but that's a whole other animal to deal with.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

Regarding tanks all things been equal (player skill, available cooldowns) you wont really be able to solo tanks as drg so its best to avoid them in one on one situations. That drop you are seeing in your dmg against them are the result of them using abilities like rampart, sentinel, and vengeance. There is no shame in dying to a skilled tank 1 on 1 nor much you can really do against them.

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No doubt. I died quite a few times trying to solo some WARs and PLDs with a win ratio of like 4-5:1. I was beginning to think maybe I was doing something extremely wrong for awhile until a realized that no one can really solo them effectively save for another tank.

Someone told me that defensive buffs dont work in pvp, so does blood for blood still make you take more damage while its active?

Also can a cross classed flash be used to reveal a hidden ninja?

Only buffs that directly add defense, such as Foresight or Protect, do not work in PvP. Blood for Blood-type buffs are just direct percentage adjustments to what you deal and what you take. THOSE ones work as described.

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Originally Posted by Cidolfas86

Well that brings up the question whats BiS then for DRG in PvP? Is the Snaketongue/Snakeliege and the i110 accessories even worth it then? I was considering loading up on PvP gear but people made it seem like it was a waste of time.

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I'm pretty sure Crit/Det i80 PvP BiS for Dragoon would be:

Dreadwyrm Spear/Longinus (Crit/Det)/Snakestounge Spear (with the High Allagan Spear close with only 1 less Crit)
Snakestounge Helm
Snakeliege Scale Mail
Direwolf Gauntlets of Maiming (better Det) or Astrum Armguards (better Crit)
Direwolf Belt of Maiming (better Det) or High Allagan Belt of Maiming (better Crit)
(Augmented) Ironworks Hose of Maiming or Snakeliege Brias
(Augmented) Ironworks Sollerets of Maiming or Snakestounge Greaves
Tremor Earrings of Slaying
Werewolf Choker of Slaying
True Ice Bracelet of Slaying
Direwolf Ring of Slaying
Judgement Ring of Slaying

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

I'm pretty sure Crit/Det i80 PvP BiS for Dragoon would be:

Dreadwyrm Spear/Longinus (Crit/Det)/Snakestounge Spear (with the High Allagan Spear close with only 1 less Crit)
Snakestounge Helm
Snakeliege Scale Mail
Direwolf Gauntlets of Maiming (better Det) or Astrum Armguards (better Crit)
Direwolf Belt of Maiming (better Det) or High Allagan Belt of Maiming (better Crit)
(Augmented) Ironworks Hose of Maiming or Snakeliege Brias
(Augmented) Ironworks Sollerets of Maiming or Snakestounge Greaves
Tremor Earrings of Slaying
Werewolf Choker of Slaying
True Ice Bracelet of Slaying
Direwolf Ring of Slaying
Judgement Ring of Slaying

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Thanks for this. This is actually a helpful list of things to shoot for. I've already purchased a full set of Snaketonge gear so there's that at least.

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Originally Posted by Ragology

Also can a cross classed flash be used to reveal a hidden ninja?

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Albeit at a range where it's pointless to be able to reveal them, but yes.

lol you didn't give any of your dragoon fashion tips

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Originally Posted by Aiel

Got any dragoon fashion tips for me?

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Nope lol. But, when someone comes to PvP in a subligar, I come to expect great things. Subligars can grant enormous power.