Break the Trinity System Please

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Originally Posted by Sylve

I think the Songs just need more visual aura when its active on people.
Likewise on my WHM, Having a Ballad active forces me to full MP no matter how hard i dump spells. Its just that if you don't look for the icon ... You don't see that its active, even if you can see the effects. I Advocate the spell effect being accompanied by a visual aura on affected people, not too obnoxious, but big enough to be seen, so when you see it, You KNOW a BRD is singing.
Also, I'm ok with a system that rewards proper use of skills. I think its in a good spot power wise, just needs visual help :D

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unless something has changed since I touched my bard (admittedly it's been a while) the bard can't see others TP only mp. so the bard isn't really able to tell that that song it helping anyone but themselves unless your on voice or something telling the bard. Definitely the visual, very much.

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Originally Posted by LeCard

unless something has changed since I touched my bard (admittedly it's been a while) the bard can't see others TP only mp. so the bard isn't really able to tell that that song it helping anyone but themselves unless your on voice or something telling the bard. Definitely the visual, very much.

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Well, I''l admit here that i've kinda memorized the speed at which my TP Jobs blow TP, and use that knowledge to time my songs for others. I also encourage people to make call outs if they need the song. I do like to tell them to just input gibberish lol, it actually works. Its hard to mistake when a DRG suddenly screams UJIGPUIYFVHLGPO, its a bit quicker to throw that out than a polite and legible song request. >_>

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Well, I''l admit here that i've kinda memorized the speed at which my TP Jobs blow TP, and use that knowledge to time my songs for others. I also encourage people to make call outs if they need the song. I do like to tell them to just input gibberish lol, it actually works. Its hard to mistake when a DRG suddenly screams UJIGPUIYFVHLGPO, its a bit quicker to throw that out than a polite and legible song request. >_>

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I'm stealing that if/when my brd sees combat again. (been on a big crafter/gather kick lately). Though it would be nice if they could just tack that third bar to the party menu, who knows why it isn't there.

Also, how in all that is bardly did you memorize time like that? my sense of time is no where near accurate enough to manage that XD

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Originally Posted by LeCard

I'm stealing that if/when my brd sees combat again. (been on a big crafter/gather kick lately). Though it would be nice if they could just tack that third bar to the party menu, who knows why it isn't there.

Also, how in all that is bardly did you memorize time like that? my sense of time is no where near accurate enough to manage that XD

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I spent an ungodly amount of time in Titan HM DF on those Jobs for Relics ... And most of them were before the server speed ups in regards to location checking. So many fun times were had getting killed by phantom Weights and Asslides.

I'm all for SE adding more jobs with support abilities. Pure support, not so much. Thats coming from someone who loved mezzer, bard and Dirge in Everquest. Pure support only works in large scaled parties as for balance, in small scale parties a pure support cannot out weigh taking a DPS over them. Rift 5 peep dungeons, things went a lot faster/smoother going 3 DPS, tank, healer over 2 DPS, support, tank, healer.

Not to mention, if they increased party size and balanced dungeons for 5/10 peep parties, the game would be better served making the additional as another DPS to ocunter the disparity between, not just the number of players going DPS, butthe disparity between the choice of DPS jobs compared to tank and healers.

Also for the system, support will needs be able to solo. Would be counter productive not to be so, as how many do you think would touch a job that needs to party to do anything? Some would, pretty safe to say many more would not.

You could say, "make levelling require grouping". Going on past MMO history (not just FFXI) forced grouping for levelling works at the beginning then after a point it becomes a negative and a barrier to getting new players due to the population diminishing overtime in low level areas making it more and more difficult to progress which in turn deters new players. Then the game changes to make levelling more accessible.

Jobs are pretty balanced in usefullness at this time. Something SE learnt well from FFXI where job balance was pretty non-existant. All jobs are useful, none are really must haves to even be able to pass certain content. Let SE keep it that way.

Support classes are my most favorite classes to play and while I would love one here. Realistic though sadly I don't see it happening in this game unless the devs can better think outside the box and change the way combat and battles work. To be better adaptive outside of the basics of do you tank, heal, or dps. Along the lines of removing patterns and making battles random. Something Yoshida said early on he wouldn't do random elements in battle because none would be able to clear the content. Going along the lines of removing the elemental wheel becaue it would be too stressful to players.

I would say give me the stress PLEASE, I like stress of support / hybrid role but I know it will never happen here unless the core elements of battle change. Its all stock tank, healer, and dps from here on out with maybe a slight nod to support roles mixed in with their abilities.

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Originally Posted by Aylis

Along the lines of removing patterns and making battles random. Something Yoshida said early on he wouldn't do random elements in battle because none would be able to clear the content. Going along the lines of removing the elemental wheel becaue it would be too stressful to players.

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Designing fights which rely on random mechanics and elements isn't as easy as it may sound. There has to be some structure, otherwise the fight success can fall totally into the roll of the dice. But, saying that, many fights do have a certain randomness to it. as examples, t6, who gets honeyglazed, turn 7 who gets voice/shriek. t8, allagan field. etc.

What Yoshi said about random fights is he didnt want one party easy clearing content and another not being able to based solely on rolls of the dice.

as a side thought.

The original "holy trinity" was not Tank, Healer, DPS. But Tank, Healer, Mezzer (crowd control support role), DPS was a given. But back then Mezzers controlled the battlefield, not the tank :D

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Originally Posted by Aylis

, I like stress of support / hybrid role but I know it will never happen here unless the core elements of battle changes.

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I never found support to be stressful. They tend to be the most boring roles. The ones in lineage 2 take the cake. I remember making this blade dancer the first time I played, it had two swords so that was pretty cool. Later on in parties the others would tell me to do 3-4 dances and then sit in the corner for 5 min. I mean you could DPS or whatever but it wouldn't make a difference.

I'd rather she implements buff debuff skills on existing roles than make one that is just support.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

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I may have mis-worded what i wanted to say I think. I meant to say not so much random mechanics and elements but more rather of "this is what the monster can do, the monster can use these abilities at random, be ready for anything" type of system, like say taking away the set pattern of Primal's abilities per phase and having them happen in any order. I know it won't happen here because the game wasn't designed for that. Then it may better suit it for support gameplay. Ala Everquest where bards would be pullers, twisters and melee'ers and chanters would be mezzers and buffers and debuffers and mini nukers ^^

Also you have no idea how happy I am when you said the original trinity was tank,healer, mezzer/slower. I was biting my tongue on that because of the time when dps replaced mezzer/slower in the trinity. ^^

That just...seems like an incredibly boring class. I agree with the people that say to just roll support things into other classes.

Wasn't there like one class in very early FFXIV that was solely for supporting shields that eventually got rolled into GLD because it was redundant? I think that's how any support would happen I think.