Xeno's Warrior Tanking Guide

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Originally Posted by Rbstr

The BB combo has more potency than the Halone combo. So, tank modes, a War will out DPS/Hate an indentical-gear Paly simply by BB combo-spaming without using any of the other tools.

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Which I did identify, but ignoring either permutation of the Maim combo is something only bad Warriors do :)

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Originally Posted by Rbstr

The BB combo has more potency than the Halone combo. So, tank modes, a War will out DPS/Hate an indentical-gear Paly simply by BB combo-spaming without using any of the other tools.

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False.

Defiance lowers damage by 25%
Shield oath lowers damage by 20%

An extra 20 potency on the ender doesn't make this totally balanced. And as mentioned above, ignoring Maim is for Warriors who think they are Paladins.

Yeah I lost my train of thought there and posted when I got up instead of finishing, sorry. (and also forgot about the difference in damage reduction! It's a total of about 10 adjusted pot different so the paly would be just slightly ahead)
The continuation is that BB doesn't need 2x the enmity to keep up, it needs substantially less than that. The Storms combos still do some enmity on their own and buff the BB combo ahead of Halone by 16% total pot (before hate bonuses) without the SE debuff.
That in the end I think it makes hate pretty darn even before unchained, berzerk and FoF come into play.

Exactly, you must use a Storms Eye or Path combo as WAR to keep Maim up, which lowers your overall threat compared to PLD... PLD does more damage (and threat) than a WAR does if the WAR only spams Butchers Block because PLD does more Auto-Attack damage due to Sword Oath. You cannot cannot cannot forget about that when comparing them. If you are considering Shield Oath vs Defiance only, then it becomes similar.

Kudos to you if you can tank without Defiance on as a WAR, but even a full STR WAR w/o Defiance cannot hold off any DPS thats doing higher than 450-470 DPS, and it can BARELY hold off of a STR PLD even in Defiance, assuming you are doing Eye. Also a side note, when we were testing the usefulness of a STR PLD we found that a WAR with full STR ilvl 104 cannot hold threat off a full 110 PLD in Sword Oath... its sooooo soooo close even for a 110 WAR. So the usefulness of WAR MT, STR PLD OT is really limited just due to the humungous amount of threat the PLD generates.... progression is pretty much out of the question.

Also my PLD 380 Top end and WAR 400 top end should be pretty accurate... 1 mistake on WAR's rotation (at all) drops it by 15-20 DPS instantly, its crazy. So PLD and WAR both probably do 380 top end just because of how difficult it is for WAR to pull out that extra 5%.

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Originally Posted by Rona

Hey Xeno,

How much more gear do you think I need before I'm reading to go full STR? http://xivdb.com/?wardrobe/12830/Current-Warrior

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I would say It would depend on what content you are doing. Being at IL 93 you probably want all the vit you can get. Once you reach 9k you can start to play a with str a little more. Ideally youll want 9500 minimum to go specced fully into str IMO.

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Originally Posted by Donjo

Most of this is what I've gathered regarding the damage of the tanks as well. In Tank Stance, WAR wins hands down. In non-Tank stance, PLD wins if and only if a WAR is providing Storm's Eye. Whee.

But, enmity. I was under the impression that WAR and PLD were pretty equal here as well. If, say, both tanks were going ham on one enemy, the WAR would certainly come out ahead at first because of their superior burst while the PLD just goes 1-2-3 easy mode all day. Once the WAR loses that burst, they're alternating between Butcher's Block and one Storm constantly like a good little tank while the PLD just keeps pressing 1-2-3. Thus, unless Butcher's Block provides at least a clean 2 times more enmity potency than Halone, the PLD is currently generating threat more quickly. This would mean that in a theoretical equal gear situation, the PLD would hopefully have caught up to the WAR's threat... just before the WAR's next burst time. In fact, the PLD might actually steal the monster for a short time before that happens.

So, my conclusion there is that WAR threat is an ebb and flow with high burst and lower consistent threat outside of that burst(unless they only use the BB combo, which is probably a poor decision) while PLD threat has a higher consistent rate but weak burst.

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Actually Skull Sunder and Butcher's Block generate more hate then Savage Blade and RoH naturally. There is a chart floating around the forums somewhere along with a threat generation calculator. Ill try to find it for everyone. PLD actually have more burst than Warriors because of CoS and Spirits within. And i dont think your situation is applicable because if the WAR was MT then The PLD would be in sword oath and there is no way a pld will pull hate with 1-2-3 with a war in defiance. The tanking stances add a ridiculous amount of threat.

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Originally Posted by Zdenka

Exactly, you must use a Storms Eye or Path combo as WAR to keep Maim up, which lowers your overall threat compared to PLD... PLD does more damage (and threat) than a WAR does if the WAR only spams Butchers Block because PLD does more Auto-Attack damage due to Sword Oath. You cannot cannot cannot forget about that when comparing them. If you are considering Shield Oath vs Defiance only, then it becomes similar.

Kudos to you if you can tank without Defiance on as a WAR, but even a full STR WAR w/o Defiance cannot hold off any DPS thats doing higher than 450-470 DPS, and it can BARELY hold off of a STR PLD even in Defiance, assuming you are doing Eye. Also a side note, when we were testing the usefulness of a STR PLD we found that a WAR with full STR ilvl 104 cannot hold threat off a full 110 PLD in Sword Oath... its sooooo soooo close even for a 110 WAR. So the usefulness of WAR MT, STR PLD OT is really limited just due to the humungous amount of threat the PLD generates.... progression is pretty much out of the question.

Also my PLD 380 Top end and WAR 400 top end should be pretty accurate... 1 mistake on WAR's rotation (at all) drops it by 15-20 DPS instantly, its crazy. So PLD and WAR both probably do 380 top end just because of how difficult it is for WAR to pull out that extra 5%.

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Using SE does not actually lower your overall threat, it increases it. Skull sunder and BB generate more hate naturally than savage blade and RoH. Square Enix knew that would WAR would have to use another combo other than BB so the extra hate on SS and BB are to compensate for this, after the buff is applied its really no contest War will always generate more hate. as far as your tests they sound really inaccurate. I would like to see your parses because I cannot do 400 dps let alone 380 maybe i am doing something wrong though, doubt it... but maybe. So im going to have to go with your tests are off haha. Lets see some parses! Prove me wrong. And make sure no food/party buff/ or pots are used for an accurate parse. another thing gear wasnt identical and skill may not have been either. There are a lot of questionable variations here. I have never had a problem keeping hate on any amount of DPS here is my twitch channel and youtube:
http://www.twitch.tv/xenosysvex
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuf...ZSi0sHWBhzz9yg
for many encounters showing non defiance tanking/WAR dps in defiance and not.

I think ill agree to disagree with you here haha. It sounds to me like you are very biased because of the comments with no actual proof or anything. Just things in your opinion. who knows though... i could always be wrong! haha

So against large groups of trash do you use the SP, IR, Beserk and IB combo or are you less stingy with cooldowns and just use vengeance, thrill of battle etc. as they are available?

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

So against large groups of trash do you use the SP, IR, Beserk and IB combo or are you less stingy with cooldowns and just use vengeance, thrill of battle etc. as they are available?

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In large groups of trash i often do: Infuriate> Blood Bath> Overpower>Vengence> HS> IR> Maim> Berserk> Steel Cyclone> then spam Overpower like a baddie. I can usually hit 900-1k dps on groups and still mitigate a lot of damage with just vengence and Blood bath

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Originally Posted by Xenosys

Actually Skull Sunder and Butcher's Block generate more hate then Savage Blade and RoH naturally. There is a chart floating around the forums somewhere along with a threat generation calculator. Ill try to find it for everyone. PLD actually have more burst than Warriors because of CoS and Spirits within. And i dont think your situation is applicable because if the WAR was MT then The PLD would be in sword oath and there is no way a pld will pull hate with 1-2-3 with a war in defiance. The tanking stances add a ridiculous amount of threat.

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I was explaining a theoretical situation in which both Tanks were in tanking stance. Theoretical I say because this rarely happens! Also, I have totally stolen aggro from a WAR in Sword Oath... when said WAR was stupid enough to try keeping both Storms up at once.

As for enmity potency, I always thought that Combo 1 was x1, Combo 2 was x3, and Combo 3 was x5. The Stances are a global x2 to everything I think. Skull Sunder = Savage Blade in terms of ability potency but Butcher's Block is 20 potency more(and thus 100 enmity potency more) than Rage of Halone. Do you have proof, numbers, etc. that show that the enmity multipliers are indeed larger for Warriors?

Now, Paladins have better burst? I'm defining burst as "using cooldowns to increase threat", and this means the Warrior using Berserk/Unchained and the Paladin using Fight or Flight. I fail to see how two abilities that lack enmity multipliers, despite their high ability potency for oGCD moves in general, can push Paladin burst past the Warrior's. Methinks some math is necessary, but I'm too lazy for that right now :)