Stop Raising Item Level and build foundation with Horizontal Progression first

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Originally Posted by Fendred

Yeah, the inventory management system needs some changes to accomodate large amounts of gear. They might as well make the armory chest unlimited and let you put any kind of armor or weapons inside of it. We aren't going to vendor our raid sets if they can be used for vanity.

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The gear for the game can stay the same just use a different type of materia system were crafters can open slots for end game gear and make it to were the materia is detachable but at a certain stage like relic materia and have a preset materia armory feature to save different sets by click of button you have a differnt build no new gear required just the effort we have with the current system of course this is a vague example more indepth would be required for something like this just a thought.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

I've been playing MMOs since EQ1. All that time have come to conclusion that choice is an illusion. By making it require exact pieces of gear amongst a myriad of choices adds more limitations than options.

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As an old EQ player you should know better than this. Yes, while it's true content lasted longer in that game, it was by no means a horizontal progression. There were a myriad of cool items in EQ, however, that maintained a use years after it was released such as the Fungi Tunic or Cloak of Flames. Then you had all of the fluff right-click items that let you change your appearance (Inky mask, skeleton bracelet) or summon food and water, etc. There's really nothing like that in this game other than the minions which are more of a status symbol than anything else.

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Originally Posted by TheUltimate3

I am unfamiliar with FFXI's expansions, did it go from Vertical to Horizontal or Horizontal to Vertical?

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FFXI was horizontal for the longest time. If my memory serves me right (anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on the timeline), it was at level 75 cap from 2002-2010 until they released Abyssea and raised the level cap.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

FFXI was horizontal for the longest time. If my memory serves me right (anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on the timeline), it was at level 75 cap from 2002-2010 until they released Abyssea and raised the level cap.

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Yeah. FFXI released with the 1st expansion included in NA with the lvl 75 cap (JP launched earlier with 50). Then the 2nd expansion came out and the story content in that expansion was tough and arduous but iirc rewarded the players who completed it with some of the best accessories in the game that most new accs still can't beat years later. Players who couldnt get that accessory (I think it was a ring) would settle for alternatives but would still try to get that 2nd expansion content done to get that ring if they can. Hell, I came back to FFXI during abyssea while waiting for the jobs patch in FFXIV 1.x and got to lvl 95 and quickly got the hand out abyssea gear but the friend I played with would go do the COP content (nerfed as it was) to go get that ring (and enjoy the story). Sure, we experienced it the same way a new player would experience hard mode primals in ffxiv now because of how abyssea made everything before it obsolete (like what FFXIV is trying to do to itself now) but before that, I'm sure it would have been way less of a walk in the park.

Eh, I still don't get what people who want horizontal progression actually want. Primal accessories, Sol / ST gear...I went from a Det set to a SS set, so... isn't this already in the game?

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Originally Posted by Moqi

Eh, I still don't get what people who want horizontal progression actually want. Primal accessories, Sol / ST gear...I went from a Det set to a SS set, so... isn't this already in the game?

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I think they want full of a certain secondary stat while maintaining accuracy cap, if DPS, and maximum main stat for their class if full i110. I don't think this desire will work with the limited amount of dungeons we have now. So this whole thread is just a complaint thread because we simply do not have the content in-game to cater to it.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Gear needed for Ilvl requirements is accesible by everyone. Which is one reason it's more succesful than FFXI.

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Bit early to be coming to that conclusion, I think. FFXI has stood the test of time - it's lasted for more than eleven years and people are still playing it. Even if FFXIV currently has more players than FFXI did at any point in its lifespan (I don't know whether this is the case or not), that says nothing about where it'll be a decade from now.

Part of the fun of FFXI, imo, was building "Ultimate X Builds". You could look into an Ultimate Enfeebling Build for your DRK, which might require obtaining bits of armor from all kinds of different events. Or an "Ultimate WHM melee build" - sure, no one would use a melee WHM in a serious event, but that sure didn't stop people from hunting Shen, now did it? Being able to obtain these different sets of armor was part of the charm - and actually being able to USE them due to the ability to change equipment mid-combat meant that they could even be useful from time to time. "RDM's down, and we really, REALLY need to sleep the add on this boss! No worries, while a normal DRK might not be able to sleep that add, I have the Ultimate DRK Enfeebling Build!" The day is saved!

In FFXIV, there's much less option as far as Ultimate Builds go. If you're a DD, you build for damage. You don't even really have choices like "Skill speed vs Crit rate vs Determination", because it can be mathematically proven which of those stats is superior. If crit is the clear choice, and you show up with the "Ultimate Det Build", all you get is funny looks. Tanks and healers have a little more versatility; both can look to emphasizing dd roles in certain situations as needed.

Once you have your ilvl X gear from Dungeon Y, there's little incentive to go farm Raid Z for different ilvl X gear - especially if the piece you have is mathematically superior (and if it's not, you'll likely never even bother with Dungeon Y). On the other hand, if one dungeon gives your BRD a great dd body piece, and another gives your BRD a piece that's only average for dd but reduces the recast of Blunt Arrow by half, are you going to go for both pieces? You'd better believe it.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

I think they want full of a certain secondary stat while maintaining accuracy cap, if DPS, and maximum main stat for their class if full i110. I don't think this desire will work with the limited amount of dungeons we have now. So this whole thread is just a complaint thread because we simply do not have the content in-game to cater to it.

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No, that's what Sapphic wants and he's against horizontal progression. What he's describing is letting players only have 2 secondary stats on a character, no extras. That means all your gear would be, if you're a dragoon or monk, STR, VIT, Just enough ACC, and PURE DET. The only reason we're taking crit rate too is because we cant have a piece of gear that has +STR, +VIT, +DET and another +DET. None of your pieces would have any skill speed or crit hit and that's what everyone will do, the only difference between each of them would be their ilvl quality.

I'd personally love to see less of the current 4 stats on gear formula.

Maybe add unique gear with special stats like instead of:

20STR/20VIT/15ACC/15S.Speed

We'll see something like:

-20STR/+40VIT/15ACC/15S.Speed.

Or new stats all together like Enmity, Damage taken -/+, or straight up skill specific gear like "Enhanced Bersek"

I can't wait to be ilvl 525! -.-

I really want horizontal progression to be the norm for this game :( It's annoying playing multiple jobs, and then being behind on most of them as soon as the ilvl increases..yet again. I get this keeps playing people playing longer in theory, but it would be awesome to be able to ADD to your gear sets with expansions, not have to replace them in full each time.