Minor tank balancing ideas. (WAR & PLD)

I...still don't understand. I have no problems holding hate on PLD in t4 or t5 and don't see why we need an AoE hate buff. Yes, WAR has slightly greater AoE hate and PLD has, generally, greater single target, but they're both extremely high in the tanking stance.

I also don't have issues not ripping hate off a WAR MT. First of all, switch to Sword Oath...

I don't personally understand why you'd want self-healing on Inner Beast as it presently is. You want to pop it before every major hit and your healers shouldn't be behind at that point anyway, so you'll probably not benefit that much from a self-heal much of the time. It seems far better to coordinate with the healers for healing/mitigation than to have your HP fall rapidly and then suddenly self-heal...

Shield Bash is already a wonderfully overpowered ability. T5, you can do all the stunning for the Dreadknights. HM Ifrit, you can still stun most erruptions. WP, I stun everything when a Tonberry drops oil and pick them up while everybody else keeps doing their job.

Move Inner Beast Off GCD.

Wait for QQ from bads complaining about how Inner Beast doesn't activate immediately due to animation/latency.

don't mind inner beast being on off GDC, would make it more reactive i guess, but you're already be spamming inner beast whenever it's up anyway sans special cases like death sentence.

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Originally Posted by Seifu

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I feel that PLD's Shield Bash does not need a change, as it currently is, it takes a keen understanding of when to use and sufficiently prepare for it which is fine but PLD does need a new skill to deal AoE dog and to hold threat, WAR has 4 AoE threat generating skill (Overpower, Steel Cyclone, Flash) whereas PLD only has 1 (Flash)

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

See that was the problem with warrior before. Abilities scaled off gear and not content. That's why the damage reduction was important, it scales with content.

War has better AoE threat. PLD has better mitigation. I have a hard time thinking about where there would actually be a problem with this..

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Mitigation is gradually becoming a non-issue with WAR being able to use Storm's Path for a perpetual 10% damage mitigation or chain Storm's Path and Inner Beast to get 30% damage mitigation when required and the ability to self heal via Storm's Path, Inner Beast and Thrill of Battle, this is on top of WAR's existing 25% extra max HP boost. This is why WARs are a preferred choice for T5 MT.

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Originally Posted by ReiszRie

Mitigation is gradually becoming a non-issue with WAR being able to use Storm's Path for a perpetual 10% damage mitigation or chain Storm's Path and Inner Beast to get 30% damage mitigation when required and the ability to self heal via Storm's Path, Inner Beast and Thrill of Battle, this is on top of WAR's existing 25% extra max HP boost. This is why WARs are a preferred choice for T5 MT.

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That's exactly the thing.

Warrior and Paladin are equal in mitigation, up to the point of it being neglible. The only difference is that Warrior does FAR more damage, has a far greater arsenal of attacks, self-heals and naturally has 25% more HP.

It's completely unfair and unbalanced. All they needed was the curing buff moved off their combo, which they had, but then they went overboard and got ridiculous buffs they never should have gotten :/

Paladin needs a huge buff to mirror that.

These changes are completely not needed. If there were ever a time where aoe is needed for very prolong periods of time, Pld will most definantly pull ahead as riot, combo/ flash they can quite keep up aoe threat indefinantly as for warriors, their aoe threat may be big at start but if its a prolonged fight, tp will become a very huge issue.

The main problem is not that Paladins need more damage for aoe. The problem is well flash does not cause damage no damage makes you feel you are not doing much or believe at any time aggro will be pulled off you. Having lvled up both tanks i feel more secure as a warrior mostly because i see numbers fly.

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Originally Posted by Surian

That's exactly the thing.

Warrior and Paladin are equal in mitigation, up to the point of it being neglible. The only difference is that Warrior does FAR more damage, has a far greater arsenal of attacks, self-heals and naturally has 25% more HP.

It's completely unfair and unbalanced. All they needed was the curing buff moved off their combo, which they had, but then they went overboard and got ridiculous buffs they never should have gotten :/

Paladin needs a huge buff to mirror that.

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False on so many points. Wars do not do significantly more damage. In my Twintania static we have myself a i90War and my MT is a i90Pld. He and I bounce top tank DD back and forth. It changes each fight. War does not do "significantly more." That's a myth.

Self Heals now are so negligible you can't really rely on that as an edge anymore. Bloodbath isn't very useful for healing in single target fights. It's best against a group of enemies with overpower spam. Against Twintania it is very negligible. Even Thrill of Battle as an emergency heal is nice, but it's not something to rely on. Even inner beast is incredibly small now. Warriors simply can not reliably self heal. At best I can handle one spike heal by throwing thrill of battle + blood bath + inner beast, but that isn't something I can do very often at all. The vast majority of my healing comes from healers.

Having more HP is also pointless. The paladin has up front mitigation wheras warrior does not. This means that the pld doesn't take hits as hard as a warrior, and in effect our hp are effectively the same. Warriors must receive their boost on the back end via the healing buff. In the end we both get hit just as hard.

The only thing you were right about is having a better arsenal of attacks. Everything else is very balanced with paladin.

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Originally Posted by ReiszRie

WAR has 4 AoE threat generating skill (Overpower, Steel Cyclone, Flash) whereas PLD only has 1 (Flash)

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It's hard to count.... Overpower drains 130 TP without means to get it back besides sitting there and wait. Steel Cyclone takes wrath stacks that interfere with our ability to mitigate damage. PLD's damage mitigation is off GCD and can be used without any sort of drawbacks sans animation lock but every jobs have to deal with that too. Flash, lol, we have enough MP to flash three times and no Riot Blade to gain back MP. See the balance there?
Surian, if you still believe warrior does far more damage, self-heals and that 25% more HP actually not balanced with Shield Oath 20% Damage Reduction, I have nothing to tell you except go play a warrior then judge for yourself.

As Paladin damage isnt my problem.
Yes compared to War he cant do that kind of damage but instead of buffing his Damage, i would prefer that his healing ability is raised a bit, this would make him much more of a paladin even though in japanese hes just a "Knight".
If you prefer damage than instead of generating enmity his RoH combo gains damage potential in Sword Oath (kinda that the abilitys change their bonus depending on your stance), so he is a bit more useful as OT.