Whats with "other" tanks trying to steal hate?

Do English groups do it differently?

In Japanese groups Alliance B always is main tank on bosses (unless they get us killed then we switch for that fight only). The question of who is MT never comes up.

That aside, they don't always try to steal hate (using provoke is trying I admit but I am talking about the others that don't) they just steal hate on accident because a tanks strongest DPS rotations are also our strongest Enmity Generation rotations.

Also, as for PLDs using Sword of Shield Oath. Even in Sword Oath they still pull massive hate because of the DPS increase. When I MT on my WAR (because I like to MT even though WARs are clearly better OTs because we can keep up Storm's Path and Eye more often as OT) the PLDs usually give me a run for my money.

When it's not for serious, it's fun (Hate Racing)... and I agree real Tanks don't use Provoke in these contests.

I'll get paired with a WAR buddy or another PLD and we'll sit there and spam our enmity combos, watching the bars, and slowly, slowly, slowly one of us will build up and pass the other and become Primary Target.

It depends on gear of course, but also on how well you can time your button-mashing to trigger each cascading combo right on the GCD mark...building an enmity surge just *that much* faster than the other Tank.

(Real PLD also don't use macros. We go commando, depending only on our naked button-mashing skill and Lady Latency... heh. Life on the edge, eh?)

Being able to keep or steal hate from a buddy Tank *without* using Provoke... that's just good old-fashioned e-penis measurement :)

I see this all the time in CT and usually I chalk it up to either clueless tanks or troll tanks, either of which can pretty much ruin the entire run.

However my personal peeve is when other people are f'int up or trolling and you are trying your damnedest to fix the situation and then people start yelling at you because you didn't magically fix everything.

Perfect example, I say I will mt king since I've done it before many times and a lot of the other tanks don't quite seem to know the dungeon very well, everyone says their cool with that and start assigning and taking up different positions. I'm waiting for one tank to take their position on the NW tower and instead they run past it, agro king and run to the center so that king's attacks hit everyone. Since a good chunk of the raid is near dead and all the dps have piled on and we have a troll tank running around I figure wipe, reset and get it sorted out. But instead I started getting yelled at and insulted saying that I should have taken control of the situation and that I suck, blah blah blah. Um ... having to try to Mt king with a tank that is obviously trolling or really dumb messing things up, sorry not going to work.

My job is to tank, not make up for or carry stupid people, lazy people or trolls.

Ugh, nothing makes me more upset than this right here.

When they take hate, I /a I'm not fighting you for hate, you can have it.
One time, that tank ended up dying because his healers weren't ready. Ahhh Karma

This is why I let most tanks take initiative to tank things in CT, and I'm content with playing pick-up/clean-up duty.

Except Iron Giants. I must have them. They are my precious babies. If I'm stuck on tower duty or fighting KB that fight I feel like I will fall asleep right in my chair, zzzzzz

I always MT everything in CT. Why? Becuase I know a good tank is doing the job rather than someone who is clueless, also I'm i87 and why not make things easy mode. Thankfully I am at a level where I can maintain hate over every tank I come across in CT (I assume the i88-i90 players are sensible enough to not use provoke), when someone uses provoke the enmity switches for less than a second then back to me, until 60s later when provoke is up or whatever the CD on it is.

The best I saw was on Acheron where all the tanks compete for hate 50% of the time. There was one tank that could "almost" compete with me but he made the mistake of standing beside me trying to build hate when everyone esle ran away as Flare was about to cast. I popped sprint made it to the shield in the nick of time, checked the Chat Log, "*insert name* was defeated by Acheron"..... I laughed:)

If I give a 10-15 second head start on enmity generation and then I pull Acheron before the first flare - then whoever is MT shouldn't be MT. If it's a PLD I can even pull simply running with Storm's Eye > Storm's Path > Butchers Block most of the time.

Regarding Giants, it's the idiot OT's that cast provoke the second it spawns, and then of course since the meteor just dropped, healers were casting Medica II after it landed, and so two seconds after the giant has appeared - say bye to your enmity OT. Buff up, give it a couple seconds and then Provoke + Lob/Toma. Else I will be stealing the Giant from your incompetent hands.

I agree though, using provoke to simply pull for the sake of it - is stupid.

Keep in mind that not everyone you see playing a tank job at any given moment is actually a tank player. They are often DPS tired of long queues. Especially in content like CT, where they can get away with it and still get tomes/loot for their real job(s).

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Originally Posted by Maku

Do English groups do it differently?

In Japanese groups Alliance B always is main tank on bosses (unless they get us killed then we switch for that fight only). The question of who is MT never comes up.

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Yes. On NA servers, whoever volunteers for MT is MT. In groups that actually talk, anyway. Often, whoever pulls first is MT. Or whoever isn't fast enough getting to a tower or volunteering for giants. MT often changes for every boss, too.

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Originally Posted by Bixby

Yes. On NA servers, whoever volunteers for MT is MT. In groups that actually talk, anyway. Often, whoever pulls first is MT. Or whoever isn't fast enough getting to a tower or volunteering for giants. MT often changes for every boss, too.

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That sounds ridiculously complicated especially since I have noticed English groups don't talk hardly at all.

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Originally Posted by Starvald

now, what would you suggest I do instead of baiting hands? Impress everyone with my awesome damage? Steal hate from MT cause I am going full hate combo all the time? Or stand in the back and get the hand in my face because as am actually one of the few that doesn't necessarily die when dps forget to kill it for a while?

CT Is already pretty boring for tanks as it is. I could run around like a headless chicken durin the last boss fight and do whatever. Or I stand in the back and do something remotely useful. Not necessarily the brunt Of the work here but useful.

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You know, I did mention that doing that is somewhat useful. My point was, in the context of my post, some tanks will do everything in their power to do as little as possible in CT. It amuses me, because it often has them rapidly switching between appearing and acting lazy/stupid to hyper responsive and intuitive.