SMN DPS: Pushing it to the limit

You can reapply RS'd SF after but imo during the time you are going thru your spurrouseenkindle + throwing up RS & dots you want something to be doing constant damage instead of letting that time going to waste. Your initial SF will be going off the whole time this is happening. I'm certainly not the best SMN, as I main WHM and offspec SMN but what I posted is what a good friend of mine taught me and he is by and far the best SMN I have ever seen on any server. I've left a comment on your youtube video w/ a question if you don't mind answering it :).

I find it really funny that people came in this thread and actually spoke about my method long after I gave up on talking here. Anyway, just so everyone can rest easy... I do use RS before dots if it's a situation where I know with 100% certainty I will be able to pull it off without movement. There are situations where players who are inexperienced with the fight won't know with 100% if they can do it this way, and again, it is a risk losing the extra Fester if you don't know your perfect timing. My advice was based on the fact that this person may not know all the fights yet, and therefor might not know how to optimize timing. (Example: starting out Titan Extreme, you can easily pull off RS + dots + two festers, but it will be a VERY tight squeeze unless you start the fight far away, put on dots, Fester once, dash in to get ready for plumes after LS, use Ruin 2 filler until the second Fester, etc. If you start the fight as other dps, stacking on his butt right away, running in and dodging the first landslide will force you to lose time with casting your dots... and in the end, that is a dps loss of both time and possibly your second fester. Those of us who know the fight REALLY well will pull it off, but imagine not having the fight memorized or at least not realizing the timing of the start.)

As for my 'perfect' starting rotation (if you know what is going to happen), this is what I actually do:

RS > Bio II > Miasma > Bio > Fester > SC > Shadowflare (while also triggering Contagion) > Ruin 1 until Fester is almost ready > Ruin 2 to squeeze in a final Ruin > Fester > MAYBE Energy Drain (if you need the mp) while RS is still up for the added damage and MP return.. otherwise finish off RS by squeezing in another Ruin 2. Then use your Ruin 1 unless/until you need to move, as this is more mana efficient.

Generally, Ruin 1 > Ruin 2 unless you are trying to burst something down fast (because damage is distributed before GCD is triggered, not after), something is ALMOST dead, or you are moving, obviously.

I would wait to use Rouse/Spur/Enkindle until after RS is over because otherwise you are wasting 'added' dps. Sometimes I'll trigger the initial buffs right as the tank is running in, but it depends on the situation.

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Originally Posted by Nux

While we at it, i want to ask you guys. Is there any Significant difference between (As starter)

Bio -> Bio II -> Miasma -> RuinII|Fester -VS- Bio II -> Miasma -> Bio -> Fester

I've been arguing this with another SMN user in FC for which one the best for starter. the thing is
The left sequence will took 3 GCD for initial DoTs while the right sequence only took about roughly 2.5 GCD (because Bio need time to settle in) But as you already know Bio has higher potency thus leading to higher initial startup damage. But seeing the post inside, each of you are in favor for the right sequence, is there any particular reason for that ?

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On a long boss fight where your dots will tick to duration many times, you want to get your highest total potency dots down as early as possible. Contagion or not that means Bio II > Miasma > Bio although the availability of contagion makes the difference between Miasma and Bio II nearly negligible (10 potency) if the other benefits of Miasma may be important to have up earlier.

For shorter fights where a mob will be dying before dots tick to full duration the priority changes and you have to sort of figure out on a case for case basis how long the mob will be living to figure out your dot priority.

Unfortunately I didn't log off on my SMN, but I am full BIS with T5 weapon and I usually pull 320-340 dps. We farm coil and sell primal extreme runs as 3 dps, I mention this only to add to my credibility
Here is a link to my gear set: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/LQRW
My stat priority is Int>Acc(448 for pet)>Crt>Det>SSPD
Here is a link to my group doing T5:
http://www.twitch.tv/wrydas217/c/3612493
Notice I often don’t focus on maximizing DPS in order to benefit the group, your main priority is always clearing content.
NOTE: Instant skills in parenthesis "( )" are meant to be cast within a global cooldown
Rotation:
Raging Strikes + Foes Requiem -> Bio II -> Miasmi -> Bio (Rouse + Fester) -> Shadow Flare -> Ruin II (Spur + Enkindle + Contagion) -> Ruin I -> Ruin II (Fester) -> Ruin I -> Ruin I -> Ruin I -> Ruin II (Fester + Aether Flow) -> Ruin I -> Ruin I -> Ruin I -> Ruin II (Fester) -> Bio (Swift Cast) -> Shadow Flare -> Miasma -> Ruin II (Fester) -> Bio II -> etc.

Cheers.

Always keep your pet on Obey and control her abilities and positioning, if she dies you lose out on 70-80 dps. Use Raging Strikes/Spur/Rouse/Fester/Aetherflow/Contagion/Enkindle off cooldown, while weaving them into Ruin II, Bio & Swift Cast GCD in order to maximize your rotation and cast per minute, unless you are saving them for specific phases or mobs. Using swiftcast to maximize dot uptime is very effective for getting that little extra DPS from your rotation but it also leaves your group vulnerable to deaths. If your bards don't sing during dot applications you are missing out on 10%-20% dps. Make sure you use Bane, Miasma II, and Aerial Slash when there is more than 1 mob present. Ruin II GCD weaving although effective at increasing DPS is very mana intensive.

I'll try and make myself available to any SMNs with questions about rotation or more specific boss based strategies.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wrydas

Unfortunately I didn't log off on my SMN, but I am full BIS with T5 weapon and I usually pull 300-400 dps.
NOTE: Instant skills in parenthesis "( )" are meant to be cast within a global cooldown
Rotation:
Raging Strikes + Foes Requiem -> Bio II -> Miasmi -> Bio (Rouse + Fester) -> Shadow Flare -> Ruin II (Spur + Enkindle + Contagion) -> Ruin I -> Ruin (Fester) -> Ruin I -> Ruin I -> Ruin I -> Ruin II (Fester + Aether Flow) -> Ruin I -> Ruin I -> Ruin I -> Ruin II (Fester) -> Bio (Swift Cast) -> Shadow Flare -> Miasma -> Ruin II (Fester) -> Bio II -> etc.

Cheers.

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Not to nitpick, but this is not optimal either: (I'm also suspicious that your parser is broken if you think you are doing 400 dps in an actual encounter)


* There is no reason to go Ruin I -> Ruin II unless you are running very low on mp. It's a dps loss to spam Ruin I like that during RS because you will get in less auto attacks.

* There is no reason to cast shadowflare twice (?) in one RS rotation. If you meant the second one as after RS wears off, then you should use swiftcast on the first one (during the limited time of raging strikes).

* You should be using rouse / spur / enkindle --outside-- of raging strikes, because they do not benefit from the skill and take time away from your GCD's. It's irrelevant whether they are technically "off the GCD" or not, because in reality they take at least 1s to activate in between skills and only pet commands can truly be used simultaneously (such as obey or aerial slash). Using them during RS is a dps loss.

* You cannot use "Bio (Swift Cast) -> Shadow Flare" because after bio you will have to wait for the 2.5sec GCD before the AoE circle for shadow flare can appear (as the skill shares the same GCD whether or not you use swiftcast). It is better to try to weave in swiftcast -> shadowflare after using a skill that won't share the GCD (or at least can be used immediately after). Examples of these types of skills are rouse/spur/enkindle (not during RS), energy drain / fester / bane, aetherflow, normal cast-time skills (bio II, miasma, etc).

I use ACT can provide excel sheets

* There is no reason to go Ruin I...

You will go oom spaming Ruin II. We can agree to disagree

* There is no reason to cas....

30 seconds have elapsed at this point in the rotation. Although perhaps your suggest for SC on first during RS would be better

* You should be using rouse....

I don't think we are communicating properly, you can cast instant abilities in between spells that have no cast time in order to not lose time off your globals. Check the video to see what I'm talking about

* You cannot use "Bio (Swift Cast)...

2.5 seconds is not the global of BIO, Im at 2.41 base. When I cast SC in the global that is activated by BIO I am not losing anytime on the animation for SC itself. I do this to not incur the animation lock for instant cast abilities. These are where you lose time from casting..... see video for example.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wrydas

* You should be using rouse....

I don't think we are communicating properly, you can cast instant abilities in between spells that have no cast time in order to not lose time off your globals. Check the video to see what I'm talking about

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I think he was talking about you advocating for this:

"Ruin II (Spur + Enkindle + Contagion)" and this "Ruin II (Fester + Aether Flow)"

You cannot fit 2 off-GCD skills into a Ruin 2 (or any instant GCD skill) cooldown without sacrificing some DPS. You sacrifice a pretty small amount (less than ~0.5 seconds) of time doing two of them, but ~1 second for each OGCD skill thereafter. So each time you cast two OGCDs during an instant's GCD window, you lose some cast time. That's all he was saying.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wrydas

* You cannot use "Bio (Swift Cast)...

2.5 seconds is not the global of BIO, Im at 2.41 base. When I cast SC in the global that is activated by BIO I am not losing anytime on the animation for SC itself. I do this to not incur the animation lock for instant cast abilities. These are where you lose time from casting..... see video for example.

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I take it that he thinks you are attempting to cast Shadow Flare during the GCD window of Bio, which obviously you can't do. As long as you are only using the Bio GCD window to Swiftcast, then putting the Shadow Flare out after the Bio GCD is completed, nothing is lost. It is actually better that way than doing something like Miasma -> Swiftcast -> Shadow Flare, you avoid the ~1 second animation time for Swiftcast.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wrydas

Unfortunately I didn't log off on my SMN, but I am full BIS with T5 weapon and I usually pull 300-400 dps. We farm coil and sell primal extreme runs as 3 dps, I mention this only to add to my credibility
Here is a link to my gear set: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/LQRW
My stat priority is Int>Acc(448 for pet)>Crt>Det>SSPD
Here is a link to my group doing T5:
http://www.twitch.tv/wrydas217/c/3612493

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Hmm, if you are claiming 400 DPS Sustained (IE, over the course of an entire encounter) then please, provide ACT results (perhaps the discrepancy lies in you setting the encounter culling very low and then combining separate encounters - which is fine when comparing to others doing the same, but comparing a combined encounter to an actual entire encounter, your DPS is going to be exaggerated).


Either way, I find it rather hard to believe that you (and I would assume you are implying your fellow DPS are on Par with you since you made sure to mention you sell runs with just 3 of you) are just doing so much more damage than everyone else.

My group only has 3 Dreadknights, and ends with 1:30+ remaining before enrage (same set up, 2 tank 4 dps, not 1 tank 5 dps). That's with our MNK being highest at around 312 DPS, me as BLM usually around 280-290, DRG around 270, and BRD around 250-260. (this all being on one over all encounter, no culling).

So your group having 5 Dreadknights and ending with around 30 seconds left (ie, being about a minute behind), seems pretty strange if you are all supposedly 100 DPS higher.

I don't pull 400 dps for example I did so 2 nights ago on moogle lol, perhaps it was a little over zealous for me to include that in the range of normal DPS I usually tread at around 320-340 dps depending on how much I derp. The video is very old before many of us had weapons from T5, we haven't really had a clean run for a while since we are currently trying to get a full run with all the proper FC members instead of pugs, so we are still working out the kinks although we take her down lots of mistakes are made. Let me see if I can find a more proper video. Ill edit my post accordingly. I will post sheets once I get home on fresh content.