I really don't want to moan about undercutting but....

What you dont seem to understand is that people like me to can farm 27 philo mats (lets use potash as an example) really dont care about the value of these items.

It just makes it easier for me to undercut another crafter by whatever amount I want. And I would do something like that just to get rid of it.

And this is the kind of competition the crafters are facing - cross specialization.

For me to synth a Vanya robe costs me no more then 3K. All the other mats I can either get through stuff I already have to do as a DOW/DOM or with the Duty roster. As far as the value is concerned people like me dont care because its something we want to get rid off. Its far easier to sell a completed product than the mats themselves.

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Originally Posted by ToodlesMcGiggityGoo

What you dont seem to understand is that people like me to can farm 27 philo mats (lets use potash as an example) really dont care about the value of these items.

It just makes it easier for me to undercut another crafter by whatever amount I want. And I would do something like that just to get rid of it.

And this is the kind of competition the crafters are facing - cross specialization.

For me to synth a Vanya robe costs me no more then 3K. All the other mats I can either get through stuff I already have to do as a DOW/DOM or with the Duty roster. As far as the value is concerned people like me dont care because its something we want to get rid off. Its far easier to sell a completed product than the mats themselves.

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If I put 9 Potash on the Market they will sell within hours, every time. A Vanya Robe can easily take a few days and you have to source

2 Wind Cluster
3 Lightning Cluster
5 Wind Crystal
18 Lightning Crystal
3 Silver ore
1 Copper ore
3 Gold ore
9 Potash
12 Crawler Cocoon
6 Effervescent Water

You then have to synth 1 silver ingot, 1 rose gold nugget, 6 twinthread, 1 vanya silk and 1 vanya silk robe lining. So, including the Robe itself you have to make 11 synths.

You then sell at a loss because you think it's easier than just putting the Potash up on the market (for more profit) and walking away. Can you see why I'm confused now? That's before we get into a discussion about why you leveled and overmelded your crafting class only to waste money when you synth gear.

Disclaimer: I craft because I like crafting. I don't invest too much in 2-star crafts, although I am capable of it.

At least for the 2-star gear problem, the whole problem stems from the fact that people do not need more than 1 equipment for any part. For example, there is no point in having a Rose Gold Earring and a Hero's Earring of Healing. I won't include Allagan Earring of Healing, since it's a dungeon drop, and does not cost any resources to obtain. This means that there is absolutely no reason for me to have 2 differently overmelded Rose Gold Earrings with different stats.

Then you also consider that everyone can only craft the same item. There is no variation or something that sets the products apart. For example, Coca Cola or Pepsi? They're both cola, but they have a different flavour (last I tasted) - I find Coca Cola to be sweeter than Pepsi. You don't have this kind of variation with crafted 2-star gear. Vanya Hat of Healing crafted by me, and Vanya Hat of Healing crafted by Individual A are no different.

You can attempt to make them different by melding in materia, but due to the RNG nature of melding, you can only meld so much before you eventually have to call it quits just so you don't end up netting a loss.

Because variation is taken out of the equation, and people only need one part for their gearset, people are simply keen enough to just buy whichever is at the lowest price. And fact is, as long as mine sells, yours won't. This is why people undercut, even if by a few gil. Ultimately, crafted 2-star gear doesn't move in a fast enough volume as say materia, or crafting materials like Aldgoat Leather, Steel Ingots, etc. And so you have people undercutting on these stuff because they simply want it to sell. As long as I am selling for 30k, I am making a profit because I gather the materials myself.

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Originally Posted by juniglee

As long as I am selling for 30k, I am making a profit because I gather the materials myself.

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If you do that you're making profit from gathering, and actually losing money to craft it. Why would you do that? selling the mats is clearly the best way to make money in that situation.

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Originally Posted by Artemiz

If you do that you're making profit from gathering, and actually losing money to craft it. Why would you do that? selling the mats is clearly the best way to make money in that situation.

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Because I enjoy crafting.

I don't factor in opportunity cost, because I am not out to make money via 2-star HQ crafting. On my server, there's a lot of people who can craft 2-star HQ gear. Going into competition with these people for something that won't sell fast is quite risky.

The last time I sold 2-star HQ crafting gear was about 3 weeks ago. I ended up helping a friend craft a set of Rose Gold Earrings yesterday. Since I needed CP food buff, which last 35 mins with the new FC food duration buff, I ended up taking that time and crafting a lot of other stuff as well instead.

It really depends. Philo mats are 2.5k each on my server. Crafted 2-star HQ gear vary from 28k to 34k in price. Sure I'd make at the very least just 6k in profit IF I can sell it. But considering that I did not count the time to gather my own mats as opportunity cost, I feel that it's a profit for me.

The questionable market keeps me from applying materia, I'm just not sure if it's worth it at this point. Then again materia is cheap now.

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Originally Posted by Artemiz

Sigh, I was raised to believe being spiteful was a negative thing

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You are quite right, of course. It is not something I am particularly proud of, but there it is.

When I am being slightly less honest about my own feelings, I might say that it is a way of disincentivizing negative behaviors.

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Originally Posted by Artemiz

What about all those people who aren't undercutting yet have their income ruined by your spite?

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I confess that I haven't really thought about it. On my server there are probably only a handful of people who sell most of the 2-star crafted gear. Some of these people undercut legitimately and often, shaving hundreds or thousands of gil off their prices to move to the front of the line. I don't dislike these people. I don't think they are, in effect, cheating, like those who undercut by one gil.

(continued)

But neither am I terribly sympathetic to their plight.

I am sympathetic to the person who wanders along and thinks, as I once did, that they can craft something, put it on the market, and come back in a couple days to profit. If your server is at all like mine, those people are going to have a great deal of trouble selling their items anyway. And if your server is like mine, they might end up selling their items for little more than cost out of sheer frustration, which is really but a few shades of difference from spite.

I have not given the matter much thought before now, but it is not immediately clear to me why I am doing something wrong if I put low-priced items on the market boards for a day or two no matter what my motivation. Each time a weaver makes 50k gil on a Vanya robe, some mage is paying 50k gil for someone else to gather materials and render a service I have always provided for free to anyway who asks.

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Originally Posted by juniglee

Because I enjoy crafting.

I don't factor in opportunity cost, because I am not out to make money via 2-star HQ crafting. On my server, there's a lot of people who can craft 2-star HQ gear. Going into competition with these people for something that won't sell fast is quite risky.

The last time I sold 2-star HQ crafting gear was about 3 weeks ago. I ended up helping a friend craft a set of Rose Gold Earrings yesterday. Since I needed CP food buff, which last 35 mins with the new FC food duration buff, I ended up taking that time and crafting a lot of other stuff as well instead.

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That's exactly what I do!

I stopped going out of my way to craft 2-star gear expressly to sell, but every now and again I end up making gear to sell just because I like crafting and have extra time on my food buff. It also gives me something to do with the stacks of NQ components I made to spiritbond gear before the 2.1 materia changes.

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Originally Posted by Kakure

That's exactly what I do!

I stopped going out of my way to craft 2-star gear expressly to sell, but every now and again I end up making gear to sell just because I like crafting and have extra time on my food buff. It also gives me something to do with the stacks of NQ components I made to spiritbond gear before the 2.1 materia changes.

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FYI mate, you can edit your post to get around the character limit. No point triple posting, and using up your daily posting limit (unless you don't post a lot to begin with).

It isn't expressly hard to sell either. There's still a market, albeit rather small for 2-star items. I crafted at least 8 different items that day, and by yesterday all of them have been sold for an average of 32k gil each. Given that they are cheaper now, people who only went with Tier 3 materia melds in 2.0, can now re-craft and re-meld them using Tier 4 Materias to reach more stat caps.