Tonberry King strategies?

Fun fact about limit breaks, if you're using a paladin tank:

When the slashers spawn, you can have your mage/summoner nuke every single add on the field. Have your tank watch very very carefully for Grudge. Hallowed Ground. Pointmock at boss, finish him off.

If you're using a warrior tank though, tough luck, you're gonna have to bind/kite those adds around.

(This is all for undergeared people though; people with Relic+1 etc etc can just burn the boss.)

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Originally Posted by BlossomRose

If you're using a warrior tank though, tough luck, you're gonna have to bind/kite those adds around.

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I really can't think of a group comp where you'd *have to* kite them, regardless of gear level.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

I really can't think of a group comp where you'd *have to* kite them, regardless of gear level.

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Assuming a full group in AF without level 50 weapons (because you haven't done AK yet, so you can't get your GC weapons), your DPS can actually be low enough that you'll just have too many adds on you to deal with it. This is hard to envision when you're in DL/BC/Relic gear burning the fight in a minute flat, but I've had the misfortune of seeing (and months ago, being in) extremely undergeared groups trying to do it, and the fight was murder.

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Originally Posted by BlossomRose

Assuming a full group in AF without level 50 weapons (because you haven't done AK yet, so you can't get your GC weapons), your DPS can actually be low enough that you'll just have too many adds on you to deal with it. This is hard to envision when you're in DL/BC/Relic gear burning the fight in a minute flat, but I've had the misfortune of seeing (and months ago, being in) extremely undergeared groups trying to do it, and the fight was murder.

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Yeah, I did the fight in the first week, when I had a Crab Bow, a 37 belt, random 40's jewelry. . .and we still never kited.

This is quite interesting as i always wondered how do pugs do this boss. Seems like many people are against kiting, our tank just kites all the way and we just ignore adds and dps the boss down with the healer in cleric stance. Did this since AF level as we usually ran with non bursty dps classes.

never had any problems with

tank in center
1 dps on boss
1 dps on adds
healer switching stances inbetween the big hits

kiting is ok too but not when the tank doesnt know how to run and keep hate at the same time (df groups = simpler the better)

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Originally Posted by Luthvian

This is quite interesting as i always wondered how do pugs do this boss. Seems like many people are against kiting, our tank just kites all the way and we just ignore adds and dps the boss down with the healer in cleric stance. Did this since AF level as we usually ran with non bursty dps classes.

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The problem with PUG kiting is that the Tonberries spawn aggroed onto whoever has the attention of the king (usually the tank) and you end up with an absolute ton of them if nobody is killing them. In a DF group, seeing that many mobs makes people panic. And panicked DF players can do very stupid things indeed.

The King moves slightly more quickly than the standard Tonberries, but he can get stuck in the middle of the big horde of them quite easily and it's tricky for a Tank to reliably keep hate on him at range when he's in a crowd of 20+ mobs. Also, once the Slashers spawn, you either have to have the Tank tag each of them and kite *EVERYTHING*, or kite the King + adds in gradually decreasing circles until the Slashers close in on you.
The Slashers, when aggroed, move slightly faster than the standard Tonberry adds but slightly slower than the King. This means that everything will potentially get stuck in the horde of standard Tonberries, and there's no guarantee if the King or a Slasher will work their way out first.

You're basically left with a Tank trying to kite about 40 mobs that move at three different speeds. It's doable, but with a PUG it's a lot easier to just stand in the middle and kill the standard Tonberry adds 3-at-a-time. I've never failed a Duty Finder group using this method. Just have the Tank hold the boss in the middle and kite him a little bit if the Tonberries start getting a little too close - if your first DPS's add kill speed is too slow, you can have the second DPS help. It's actually quite easy for a Tank to kite all the Slashers and the King in a circle if you run out of time, as long as there aren't a huge number of standard Tonberries on the field.

The FASTEST method I've found is just to ignore the adds (or have a Bard kite them whilst still focussing on the boss) and burn the King down in the middle. And as previously mentioned, "AOE everything + Hallowed Ground" will work too if properly timed. Neither tend to work particularly well in DF groups though... ;)

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Originally Posted by Maelwys

The problem with PUG kiting is that the Tonberries spawn aggroed onto whoever has the attention of the king (usually the tank) and you end up with an absolute ton of them if nobody is killing them. In a DF group, seeing that many mobs makes people panic. And panicked DF players can do very stupid things indeed...

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Thanks for taking the time to explain. Yeah I figured that pug tanks wont be able to use our strat, though both my tanks use our kiting method. Thats the reason why I have never dared to df WP till now on my own because I am not sure what to expect. The slashers are not a problem at all, the boss is usually dead or almost dead by the time they reach the tank. I should think that this is the fastest way of doing this boss though since all dpsers are focused on the boss and standing still, the only one working hard is our tank.

I almost put my keyboard though my monitor last night when the King dropped the Warriors Axe for the 4th straight time.

On topic. Yeah I've found that most groups don't bother with kiting but I've had to do it once and it wasn't so hard. Just know once you see the bigger stalkers spawn it's a DPS race to see who dies.

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Originally Posted by BlossomRose

Assuming a full group in AF without level 50 weapons (because you haven't done AK yet, so you can't get your GC weapons), your DPS can actually be low enough that you'll just have too many adds on you to deal with it. This is hard to envision when you're in DL/BC/Relic gear burning the fight in a minute flat, but I've had the misfortune of seeing (and months ago, being in) extremely undergeared groups trying to do it, and the fight was murder.

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Don't need AK anymore for GC weapon. AV is now the prerequisite for GC promotion.