Would You Say We're Elitist?

Vonleo and Lstkaws,
Yes it is minimal on how it affects normal players, but that group mentality seeps and spreads on a server.
If you want to run an AK sr in relic+1 DL/AF2 only parties, that's fine, find a LS that has the same mentality and run to your hearts content.
The issue is how these types of people generally treat others with lesser gear or less experience in said dungeon.

Granted this isn't across the board and may not even be the majority, but it's enough that it's seen. These people tend to treat others with less respect and either pick on or bully those that mess up instead of trying to teach and help. It's the attitude that goes along with these shouts not the shouts themselves.

Like I said, these people may not be that dominant but they are more vocal so more attention is given to them. I have come across people that span the spectrum from being a complete douche to patient and helpful, sadly the douche is the one that gets noticed.

I encountered a situation last night that really put me between a rock and a hard place.

I was helping my friend out with Titan (a fight I must have done over a dozen times by now) and he PUGed a few random members to fill the extra slots. One of those extra members was a summoner.

Note: I am generally not the type of person who wants to teach you how to play your job. I'm not going to nitpick about every little rotation you do. However, this guy's performance could not be ignored. I knew I would kick myself if I didn't say something and let him get kicked without trying to teach him first.

Whether or not you believe parsers work for summoner (DoT tracking is infamously wonky), you can easily gauge a person's performance based on their hate on the main boss. Summoners have access to Quelling Strikes, but this will NOT dump your hate to seventh place -- which this guy was consistently at. His dps was consistently less than half of mine after multiple attempts if you are to believe the parsers.

This guy had great gear (relic and full DL) so there is no way his dps should have been that much lower. I couldn't figure out why his dps was so low, so I started watching his every move. He was keeping up his four DoTs... But... he's using Energy Drain? After yet another wipe, I politely asked him... "(name), why aren't you using fester?" I'm paraphrasing his response: "Fester isn't worth it. Energy drain is better or else I'll go OOM. Fester damage isn't that good and it wastes time. It's better to use my DoTs." Fester is an instant ability and costs one aethercharge. It costs no MP. I'm not sure what he meant by that, although I'm assuming he meant that he NEEDED to use Energy Drain to get mp back.

Instead of laughing at him, I tried to explain why Fester is good. It's the one summoner 'burst' we have. With his gear, he could EASILY crit for over 1k without Raging Strikes. He refused my advice, told me I was wrong, and reassured me that he knew what he was doing. I explained to him that mana isn't an issue because we have a bard who will be using ballad after heart for the healers -- free mp for us! Yay. I didn't get the chance to tell him that he should conserve the use of Energy Drain for when he is starting to get low (which he wasn't in the beginning).

But... he refused my advice, and another try later, he didn't improve at all. The entire party decided they were going to kick him, but not before berating him by calling him a 'fail smn' and 'bad at his job'. Did I agree with my party? Yes, in a sense. The guy refused advice even though I tried to help him. Yet, I wouldn't be rude toward him because nothing gets accomplished that way. However, if someone is UNWILLING TO LEARN, they are a bad player in my opinion. If someone is receptive to advice and help, I will never think of them as a bad player because they are willing to learn.

Anyway, the whole point of my story was to say, "It's hard to handle certain situations without coming off like a jerk." I never directly said anything rude to that summoner, but my party did (people I can't control) and I am sure the guy left with a sour taste in his mouth. I just hope he thinks about my advice because that performance isn't going to fly in the future. :(

I think of myself as a pretty nice guy easy to get along with. I don't mind helping ppl in DF or teaching ppl dungeons, and when I do SR stuff it's generally with my FC who I'd say is full of great hardcore players. Thing is, I don't really group up much with ppl on our server outside of a pug hydra or chimera.
I'm sure our server has lots of ppl like me that just go unnoticed. I wouldn't mind doing more group activities with people on our server. But my que in DF is instant as a tank, so I can just click that anytime/anywhere I'm not with a FC speed run pt.

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

if someone is UNWILLING TO LEARN, they are a bad player in my opinion. If someone is receptive to advice and help, I will never think of them as a bad player because they are willing to learn.

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Yes, I agree there are just bad players that never learn.
Just like there are ass hole players that just can't be nice no matter what.

It does go both ways. I met a Whm that thought he was hot shit, I laughed when he came into AK in a bathing suit, but I was like what ever, as long as he keeps me alive. When he did put on his gear for bosses he had 2 DL items, a lvl 1 belt, the Stategos Body and accessories that ranged from 37 - 49 and he had the nerve to try and school a mnk friend of mine that knows how to play his job.

You get the elite ass hole that likes to stroke his epeen and not be bothered by anything and you'll get the guy that just can't play and refuse to learn because he thinks he has a large epeen.

Those that are more vocal get heard the most, so the "relic+1 AF2/DL only" people in Mor Dhona come across as elitist pricks.

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Originally Posted by CyanDvai

Those that are more vocal get heard the most, so the "relic+1 AF2/DL only" people in Mor Dhona come across as elitist pricks.

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I can't say I've done any 'research' on this, but based on my own experience... the groups that require the most experience/gear are often groups that won't win.

I tend to join Titan groups when I'm really bored. I like to help people (call me crazy) and think doing Titan is a fun way to do it because I know a lot of people still have issues with this fight.

Anyway, when I join one of those 'experienced only' or 'serious runs', very rarely do I join a group that is capable of doing their job and moving. In one 'serious' Titan run I joined, the bard blamed me for his death (I was healing) because he kept getting hit by things and I apparently wasn't healing him. Keep in mind that if you want AoE heals from stomp, you need to be NEAR your healer... I don't accept blame for people getting hit by bombs/plumes, and I will heal them up if and only if I have the tank as high as he needs to be.

On what I believe was Wednesday night, I joined a Titan run eleven minutes before maintenance was going to happen. They only needed one DPS and I said I would go if we could win in 11 minutes. I didn't expect to, but why not try? There were no real requirements for the run -- they were just shouting for people. We went in and killed it in one shot, promptly said our goodbyes, and logged in time for maintenance.

I feel like people who TRULY know how easy that fight is will understand that you DO NOT need relics or DL to kill Titan. You just need people who can dodge. No amount of vitality is going to save you from constant screwups. And as far as the DPS check? I've been in groups with AK gear, some DL, and we kill the heart without needing LB.. and yet there are 'full DL/Relic' groups that build for a Lv2 LB?

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Originally Posted by CyanDvai

Vonleo and Lstkaws,
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Wait what? so these people have to try and find a LS so they can do geared speed runs in? do you know how selfish you sound right now? Like i said before you have the black list use it if you don't want to see them shouting the black list isn't only for you to black list RMT's!

Also you agree it has basically no effect on normal players! all I read sorry for saying this is excuses after excuses....I think your grasping at straws here man...

No one ever said you had to agree with my opinion, and that's exactly what it is.

Is anything going to change because of this thread, no.
But these types of shouts do give an overall view that the server is "elitist".
And unfortunately elitism has a stigma that goes with it. I know a lot of good people on this server, ones I played with since v1.0 and I've met a lot of good people, it sucks that his is the stereotype that we are getting, and it's not a good stereotype.

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Originally Posted by CyanDvai

No one ever said you had to agree with my opinion, and that's exactly what it is.

Is anything going to change because of this thread, no.
But these types of shouts do give an overall view that the server is "elitist".
And unfortunately elitism has a stigma that goes with it. I know a lot of good people on this server, ones I played with since v1.0 and I've met a lot of good people, it sucks that his is the stereotype that we are getting, and it's not a good stereotype.

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Like i said earlier these same shouts are on almost every server it doesn't give any server the look of an "elitist" also the fact that these shouts are basically only in revenants toll makes all these posts bashing on these "elitist" pretty pathetic...again i came from balmung these same shouts were being made and thats coming from a freaking RP server....