[war]Parsing +10 dex allotment, basic "just 50" gear, currently maximizing for parry.

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Originally Posted by Hachiko

It wouldn't have to be a multi roll system, it could just use the modified % to construct the table. i.e. 5% dodge, 20% block, 20% parry 10% crit would look like:

1-5: Miss
6-24: Block
25-39: Parry
40-46: Crit
47-100: Hit

This would preserve some semblence of balance while still being a one roll system, and it would look like a multiroll system for all intents and purposes it would produce the same numbers as what we see in game, while requiring far less overhead (I think).

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A single roll system that appears to all observers as a multi-roll table, is effectively a multi-roll table, despite the implementation behind the scenes, IMO.

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Originally Posted by PessimiStick

A single roll system that appears to all observers as a multi-roll table, is effectively a multi-roll table, despite the implementation behind the scenes, IMO.

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I'm almost done with some parsing. It looks to be a single roll system. Will post results shortly.

It looks to me like it is a 1 roll system, but more testing will be needed to make a definitive determination as, unfortunately, you cannot unequip weapons so parry cannot be eliminate for testing purposes. I have been able to narrow the possibilities down:

1 Roll hit table or

Miss --> Hit --> Crit --> Parry --> Block

Edit: It will be difficult to make a definitive determination between one roll and multi-roll I believe at this point without significantly increasing Parry or Block to more stable rates.

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Originally Posted by Coramac

It looks to me like it is a 1 roll system, but more testing will be needed to make a definitive determination as, unfortunately, you cannot unequip weapons so parry cannot be eliminate for testing purposes. I have been able to narrow the possibilities down:

1 Roll hit table or

Miss --> Hit --> Crit --> Parry --> Block

Edit: It will be difficult to make a definitive determination between one roll and multi-roll I believe at this point without significantly increasing Parry or Block to more stable rates.

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I'm pretty sure that it will be impossible to tell if it's 1 roll or multi-roll, but from the data I've seen it looks like it's:

Miss -> Block -> Parry -> Crit -> Hit (damage). Though as I said before I don't have enough data on crits.

Since you're doing the parse testing, it should be pretty easy to determine, and from the data I've seen, as PessimiStick said it's going to be impossible to tell whether it's technically single or multi roll, but it looks like it behaves as a multi-roll.

The easiest way to test it would be to soak a bunch of hits on your PLD, and then soak a bunch of hits on your PLD after taking off your shield.

If the number of parries / all attacks goes up, then it would mean it's treated as a multi-roll table (whether or not it's just a single roll). If the number of crits goes up it will mean that crit comes after parry and block, and not before. This is assuming there aren't parry/block crits, but I have not seen any of those or ever noticed parries for 50% more than the normal hit damage.

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Originally Posted by Hachiko

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With no shield-
650 Hit
161 Miss
38 Crit
0 Block
112 Parry


With Shield (same parry rating)
658 hit
203 Miss
38 Crit
127 Block
110 Parry

I can run some stats to verify, but I'm extremely confident that Miss --> Block --> Parry --> Crit --> Hit is wrong.

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Originally Posted by Coramac

With no shield-
650 Hit
161 Miss
38 Crit
0 Block
112 Parry


With Shield (same parry rating)
658 hit
203 Miss
38 Crit
127 Block
110 Parry

I can run some stats to verify, but I'm extremely confident that Miss --> Block --> Parry --> Crit --> Hit is wrong.

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Hmm. I think the craziest thing is the huge number of additional misses you got with a shield on. Was it the same level/mob type? Were they level 49-50?

How many total attacks was it? It looks like you had 961 attacks without a shield, and 1100ish with a shield. But I could be reading it wrong, maybe it was 650/658 total hits, including crits, blocks and parries? That seems closer as it gives ~17% expected parry rate for both, if you exclude misses.

Trying to figure out how to reconcile your data with, say, http://www.reddit.com/r/FFXIVTC/comm...in_vs_warrior/

Sorry, should have clarified how data works.
Hit = non-crit damaging attack (includes Blocks and Parries)
Miss = "dodge"; on the shield one I the data was skewed early in the parsing (just abnormal streak) and moved towards parity with other during parsing
Crit = crit (not counted in Hit)
Block = block
Parry = Parry

This is how the FFXIVAPP parser works. Crits don't count as hits. It's percentages are based on a 1 roll table.

The total attacks for no shield was 849 and with shield was 899.

I can explain the reddit- but it'll take a bit and I have to run for a short while (plus still limited to 1k chars...).

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Originally Posted by Coramac

(plus still limited to 1k chars...).

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Edit your post and you can make it as long as you want. It's only the first submit that's limited to 1k chars. One of the many tiny touches just to let you know the coding is terrible.

The problem with Drop's post on reddit is that he doesn't know what he's looking at with the data and he doesn't understand what he's doing. He says the OP took 2000 hits. He didn't. He was subject to 2001 attacks. Of the 2001 attacks, 252 were "dodged" (misses) on the WAR with 277 on the PLD. This match up almost perfectly.

Drop says if we take out block first the numbers make sense and that parry happens after block. However, he did not look at how this affects the other numbers or was unaware of the implications. This leaves 277 dodges on 1492 attacks for an 18.57% miss rate. For the WAR, this leaves 252 dodges on 1645 attacks for a 15.32% miss rate.

His calculation requires Block --> Parry --> Dodge. This wouldn't make sense from a game design standpoint as increasing block and parry would result in taking more damage for many ranges by reducing chance to be missed.

The PLD is critically hit 80 times (2001 - 1644 - 277 = 80) and the WAR 87 times (2001 - 1662 - 252 = 87). If crits occurred after miss, dodge, and parry, then the PLD has a 6.58% chance to be crit and the WAR has a 6.25% chance to be crit. If they occur independently, the PLD has a 4% chance to be crit and the War 4.35% chance to be crit. This is not definitive. I do think 6%+ chance to be crit by a lower level mob would be odd (outside typical game design), but it is definitely possible.

The interesting thing about his parse is that the parry does seem to be off. Running probability distributions, the discrepancy does not seem to be random. I can't tell you why that happened.

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Originally Posted by Coramac

The interesting thing about his parse is that the parry does seem to be off. Running probability distributions, the discrepancy does not seem to be random. I can't tell you why that happened.

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I forget how to calculate statistical significance, but the difference if it is dependent (i.e. simulates a multi-roll table) is less than if it were independent (.34/6.58 < .35/4.35). The fact that it's closer if you use that model AND the fact that the Parry rates work out if you use the other model seems to make me lean towards concluding that they are dependent variables, and, effectively, having a higher block rate would reduce the number of crits you receive. Might be worth testing with a very high block rate shield v. a very low block rate shield.

I think the crazier thing is that in both sambles (though yours moreso) is that the Shield gave a significant amount of evasion...

I don't understand how you can say that the evasion "matches up almost perfectly" when there's a relative difference of 13.8% to 12.5%, that's 1.3% points difference, or roughly a 10% relative difference. The difference if the crit chance is dependent was only .34%, or a 5% relevant difference.

I'm still leaning towards them being, essentially, multi-roll on a single roll table.