The attention and skill is needed on behalf of the healer, not the warrior, which is where the problem stems from. If you could be as good, if not better, than a PLD by being skilled there wouldn't be so much fuss over it. A good tank is ever conscious of their team and even more so their healer, as they are the lifeline of the group. Being a warrior means you're putting extra workload on someone else, who is also doing most of the work anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursedsoul
If said player is good at healing and triage, there's no problem. When presented with an alternative that it easier most players would take it, especially in a group environment where you want as little to go wrong as possible.
It will be melee complaining about lag and being unable to hit anyone while BLMs run around spamming Icela-err, Scathe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursedsoul
Solution to WAR problem is to nerf PLD
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10-02-2013, 05:45 PMFuuljo
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10-02-2013, 05:50 PMArkine
The only content I haven't done with WAR are coils and titan, for everything else I didn't seem to really have any major issues.
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10-02-2013, 05:58 PMDuelleErm...no. PLD sword skills and shield block ratings got buffed while WAR AoE got nerfed. PLD was pretty much garbage before the buff, specially keeping in mind that everyone that was level capped cared more about speed-running dungeons and/or AoE aggro, which WAR was optimal for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge_Xero
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10-02-2013, 06:19 PMwlakizThe only reason you see 5 - 5.2 k pld and 7k WARs in there is because WAR are forced to get more gear than pally to do titan (and we put all our spare stats in Vit). There is nothing wrong with having to get more gear, but there is something wrong with PLD not needing to get gear. Nerf PLD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephirah
If you can't handle a 4.5k Mountain buster then you really need to learn to play. -
10-02-2013, 09:36 PMPiedPiperWhat pally has ever taken 4.5k from MB? Even on night one of progression I only took 3k. Maybe if I was sword oath tanking, but that would be as silly as warrior not using defiance. Also, no tank has that much control over what happens to them after a hit of that size.Quote:
Originally Posted by wlakiz
THIS. THIS is the problem. Yes, warrior can be carried through titan. Congrats, you took hits and your healers went god mode, cool. Why? The fight would have been much easier with a paladin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkine
Coils: Find me ONE video of warior tanking Cad from turn 1. Just one video. I have not been able to find a single warrior tank vid from turn one final boss. I'm pretty confident a sch with several ilvl90 pieces might be able to carry a similarly geared warrior, but a ilvl 70 healer and ilvl 70 pld can do it just fine. Why make it harder than it needs to be? You see, once you reach this content, the problems with warrior show. Its effective hp is too low, its self heals are too infrequent. So many warriors come on here and say "I can heal myself for a billion once every two minutes." Cool story, what are you doing for those other 119 seconds? Getting wrecked and killed? Awesome.
Don't get it twisted. Its not like paladins think this is a good thing. As peopel have mentioned, the history of the game has been feast or famine for tanking class viability. Only rarely have both classes been workable. This isn't fair to either class and it shouldn't be the case that players are calling for nerfs to the class that currently works out of spite. We should all want both classes to actually work.
Yes, warrior can tank anything pre-titan, some of those better than a pld. THIS COULD NOT MATTER LESS. All pre-titan content can be tanked by titan-egi (I'm not kidding, I've been in both castrum and pratoreum groups that did this for the lulz). It is only when we get to end game of titan hm and coils that it matters what people are playing and how they are playing, and it is then that we see the problems with warriors sustain.
To the person that mentioned warrior + scholar. Yes and no. Yes, a sch will help a warrior. But they would help a paladin more, actually. You see, for the time that warrior has +15% healing recieved, it is true that sch shields are 15% more. But, paladins are always taking 20% less damage, so its actually a 5% advantage per mp spent by the sch.
Ex: Adloquim crit for 1k.
On paladin: Applies a 2k shield, because of shield oath, absorbs 2.4k damage.
On warrior: Applies a 2.3k shield, absorbs 2.3k damage.
Advantage: Paladin by 100 damage.
If you REALLLLLY want to get into self healing as "making up" that 100 points, just remember, should I choose, I can chain cast a 8% effective hp buff on myself. once I run out of mana, I can still continue to cast it every other gcd by using a combo. By the time you reach the piont in fights like cad and titan where this woudl be useful, pld will have plenty of threat to not worry about loosing threat. I have done this, largely out of boredom, or because a healer died. Can you heal/shield yourself for 8% every 3 seconds?
Please, please, please buff warrior. Grant them an aura that is a pernament +20% to healing received. This will increase their own heals and grant them the same effective hp as paladin, only in a different way. Paladin reduces up front, warrior receives more on the back end. This is also how our healers are currently balanced: SCH reduces up front, WHM restores more on the back end. -
10-02-2013, 09:55 PMKenji1134
Frankly I dont see why they have not done this beforehand. Its simple math...
Paladin takes 0.8x Damage, = 1.25x EHP and 1.25x Healing Received.
Therefore, Warrior takes 1.0x Damage, and has a stance that gives them 25% more HP AND 25% more Healing Received.
Once that it done, get rid of the healing mod on Wrath stacks, and make Wrath just give a little extra dps if you choose to keep the stacks, or enable you to use "useful" abilities if you spend the stacks.
As PiedPiper said, Paladins reduce damage before it happens, while Warriors recover from damage faster after its been dealt. In the end, the amount of healing for each should be identical.
The difference... yes, there will be a difference... is that War can parry, Pally can block and parry. War has higher aoe dps and stronger aoe aggro, Pally has almost no aoe dps, weaker aoe aggro, but slightly stronger ST aggro. War's defensive mechanics center around self healing and smaller defensive cooldowns. Pally's defensive mechanics center around larger defensive cooldowns, and pretty much no self healing... lol 200 point Cure. -
10-02-2013, 09:55 PMTanayaI said what I said in response to your original quote because it already happened. And during that time, the situations was entirely opposite. WAR was the best, and PLD was the worst. That wasn't even an argument. It was fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delorean
My underlying point is, any experienced MMO player has been through this dance before. You're also playing a game from SE, which has notoriously been terrible at class balance (though I will admit this game fares better than the previous ones). Anyone who says WAR isn't underpowered right now doesn't know what they're talking about, but it's going to take time for SE to realize that. The best thing to do is to just deal with the imbalance until that happens. Don't combat ignorance with more ignorance. -
10-03-2013, 01:52 PMCitizen_Thom
Increase PLD dmg, give PLD more combos, let PLD use Overwhelm first... or else we aren't talking about (emote:airquotes) 'balancing' the classes.
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10-03-2013, 02:42 PMRios-Drakoon
LAdies Ladies...
WAR Selfheal is a joke.
Titan HM; hit me with 1000-4500 hits, do you really think, my Healer feels any diffrence when i turn on Bloodbath oder StormsPath?
Bloodbath heals me 20-90 per hit/dot
Stormspath heals me 100-150 (all 7,5sec, but that a DMG Rotation and no Tank Enmity Rotation)
dont give me that shit, Warrior are not balanced. and theres a big gap between PLD and WAR. -
10-03-2013, 02:46 PMSpookyGhostYou should probably be popping 2 IBs for that, or Thrill + Conv. I don't know why you'd use Bloodbath or Storm's Path to try and mitigate Table Flip... Vengeance + Bloodbath could be of some use before Table Flip, though. But very little.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rios-Drakoon