Marriage feedback [inofficial Poll]

I have a different idea, after some reflection i have decided we should be able to officially get married inanimate objects in the game.... no longer will a pixel be ashamed to have special moments with other pixel items... even better i should be able to get hitched to my chokobo, probably get to ride that thing more often then you would any other pixel generated thing in the game..

way i see it SE should let us just get married to anything from bow to harp to great axe.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Twiddle

I have a different idea, after some reflection i have decided we should be able to officially get married inanimate objects in the game.... no longer will a pixel be ashamed to have special moments with other pixel items... even better i should be able to get hitched to my chokobo, probably get to ride that thing more often then you would any other pixel generated thing in the game..

way i see it SE should let us just get married to anything from bow to harp to great axe.....

---

You make a solid case~

I'll amend my proposal.

"Dear SE, Please create a non-discriminatory ceremony in which a player could declare their love and commitment to one more people or objects in the game (of any gender)."

Yes, YES! I love slippery slope arguments. They taste like ignorance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Twiddle

I have a different idea, after some reflection i have decided we should be able to officially get married inanimate objects in the game.... no longer will a pixel be ashamed to have special moments with other pixel items... even better i should be able to get hitched to my chokobo, probably get to ride that thing more often then you would any other pixel generated thing in the game..

way i see it SE should let us just get married to anything from bow to harp to great axe.....

---

You go make your tool thread for that twiddle, this is for a different discussion.

And I think there would be participant limits based on either lore or game contents/items obtained from the ceremony. It wouldn't do to have some endgame ls demand everyone wed the guild leader.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

Yes, YES! I love slippery slope arguments. They taste like ignorance.

---

Well, it IS an arbitrary line. Who are we to say where it should be drawn?

If Twiddle (or anyone else) feels a deep love for their Chokobo, why they can't be joined?

Granted, it's an NPC... but your own personal Chokobo is a dear friend in-game (and will be increasingly so with the battle companion feature).

Are you suggesting we ban peoples' rights to make a commitment to their chocobo?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Well, it IS an arbitrary line. Who are we to say where it should be drawn?

If Twiddle (or anyone else) feels a deep love for their Chokobo, why they can't be joined?

---

Apart from being a mob without any sense of piety, Chocobos are npcs, this is content between player characters.

You can't have a social relationship with a npc with coded lines, especially when they only say "Wark" and "Kweh".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Well, it IS an arbitrary line. Who are we to say where it should be drawn?

If Twiddle (or anyone else) feels a deep love for their Chokobo, why they can't be joined?

---

This argument has never worked so I don't know why you people continue to try it. It is the best and surest way to make everyone else roll their eyes and write you right out of serious discourse.

There is absolutely no comparison between two people who choose to marry one another and the scenario you propose of one person and an animal/object/whatever that can't even comprehend the concept of marriage, let alone agree to it.

You fail.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

You fail.

---

Hardly. Human-animal "marriage" happens more often then you think.

http://www.thesharkguys.com/wp-conte...hinwedding.jpg
(The dolphin looks happy)

Heck, one woman even "married" a warehouse.

/edit double post

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Well, it IS an arbitrary line. Who are we to say where it should be drawn?

If Twiddle (or anyone else) feels a deep love for their Chokobo, why they can't be joined?

---

No, it's not an arbitrary line. Marriage, like all contracts, requires that both parties have the ability to consent and make informed decisions about what they want. That's why it's considered wrong to marry— and by extension have sexual relations with— children and animals. Neither children nor animals can be really held responsible for their actions until they've gained the ability to make informed choices for themselves.

You can make the case that these aren't real animals or objects (or real people) if you'd like, but I'm sure no one is going to appreciate a game that promotes something so obviously reprehensible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Hardly. Human-animal marriage happens more often then you think.

http://www.thesharkguys.com/wp-conte...hinwedding.jpg

Heck, one woman even married a warehouse.

---

The very first sentence in your wiki link: "Human–animal marriage is not recognized in law by any country"

The warehouse is also not legally binding and is already destroyed.

Now cut it out.

http://i.imgur.com/hOoCk.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Hardly. Human-animal "marriage" happens more often then you think.

http://www.thesharkguys.com/wp-conte...hinwedding.jpg

Heck, one woman even "married" a warehouse.

---

beh, sorry to say but i feel that i have to throw up now ;XD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Well, it IS an arbitrary line. Who are we to say where it should be drawn?

If Twiddle (or anyone else) feels a deep love for their Chokobo, why they can't be joined?

Granted, it's an NPC... but your own personal Chokobo is a dear friend in-game (and will be increasingly so with the battle companion feature).

Are you suggesting we ban peoples' rights to make a commitment to their chocobo?

---

you should not mix up a deep friendship with a relationship...

but well i got somethin for you in this case :

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lj...fmrto1_400.gif

:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keisuna

No, it's not an arbitrary line. Marriage, like all contracts, requires that both parties have the ability to consent and make informed decisions about what they want. That's why it's considered wrong to marry— and by extension have sexual relations with— children and animals.

You can make the case that these aren't real animals or objects (or real people) if you'd like, but I'm sure no one is going to appreciate a game that promotes something so obviously reprehensible.

---

You're comparing a person's love for their chocobo to pedophilia??

Wow...

Not only is that an insane leap of logic, but its likely highly insensitive to people with genuine feelings for Chocobos.

Last time I checked, you couldn't have sex in FFXIV (not sure about ARR yet, but I suspect not). So you may be the only person on earth who would reach that conclusion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kallera

The very first sentence in your wiki link: "Human–animal marriage is not recognized in law by any country"

---

... YET. The eventual laws against Speciesism will pave the way for it though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kallera

The warehouse is also not legally binding and is already destroyed.

---

Well, legality has nothing to do with love... and that's a pretty sad story. :( I hope the widow found a new building to love.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

You're comparing a person's love for their chocobo to pedophilia??

Wow...

Not only is that an insane leap of logic, but its likely highly insensitive to people with genuine feelings for Chocobos.

---

Bestiality and pedophilia are both wrong for the same reasons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Last time I checked, you couldn't have sex in FFXIV (not sure about ARR yet, but I suspect not). So you may be the only person on earth who would reach that conclusion.

---

Oh yeah, I'm sure I'm the only one in the entire world who thinks bestiality is wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kallera

The very first sentence in your wiki link: "Human–animal marriage is not recognized in law by any country"

---

... YET

---

Ha! No, I'm sorry, but no. The argument from tradition doesn't work in reverse either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Well, legality has nothing to do with love... and that's a pretty sad story.

---

I don't doubt that these people experience love, but experiencing love alone isn't a compelling argument for marriage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

You're comparing a person's love for their chocobo to pedophilia??

Wow...

Not only is that an insane leap of logic, but its likely highly insensitive to people with genuine feelings for Chocobos.

Last time I checked, you couldn't have sex in FFXIV (not sure about ARR yet, but I suspect not). So you may be the only person on earth who would reach that conclusion.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keisuna

Bestiality and pedophilia are both wrong for the same reasons.



Oh yeah, I'm sure I'm the only one in the entire world who thinks bestiality is wrong.

---

we are going into a direction... well but i agree with you i feel not very comfortable when reading Zantetsuken's opinions and postings.. i have mostly the same awkward impressions.


i hope zantetsuken you mean it more in a way of "BFF" and nothing more ;X besides that i think that this kind of topic goes into a discussion which is most likely forbidden in forums like these ;XD yes you can have friendship alike feelings to animals.. but hell no.. no relationship and marriage.

every healthy human would acknowledge this ;XD
there are so many awkward suggestions in these forum.. unbelievable ^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tonkra

i hope zantetsuken you mean it more in a way of "BFF" and nothing more

---

Of course~

You can't have sex in FFXIV (thank goodness) - so what else are MMO "marriages" about anyways - other than BFFs?

And why put restrictions on the number (or kind) of BFFs you can have?

amiright?

why this topic still alive?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Of course~

You can't have sex in FFXIV - what else are MMO "marriages" about anyways - other than BFFs?

And why put restrictions on the number (or kind) of BFFs you can have?

amiright?

---

this is a roleplaying game. so marriage means, what it would mean in real life also. a deep relationship and not just a friendship. you know the difference?

when you ask someone to "marry you" its not meant to be "ah lets be the best friends forever". you are going to marry in a church ingame. so we all should know what a marriage implies. of course you cant have sex in Final Fantasy. its still just a fantasy game.

just lets end this "discussion", really strange what people can "discuss" about ;XD

Spongebob didnt marry Patrick Star, because he gave him a "BFF" (best friends forever) ring. we are talking about marriage. if you want just a ring or a symbol to show you are befriend with your chocobo then ask for an additional ingame option. "The medal of huge friendship" or whatever. ask for that..

but truly ..thats not marriage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Of course~

You can't have sex in FFXIV - what else are MMO "marriages" about anyways - other than BFFs?

And why put restrictions on the number (or kind) of BFFs you can have?

amiright?

---

You're being willfully ignorant and only describe the pettiness of your arguments with these examples.

To suggest to pull back content because you think you can be a troll about the issue is not an excuse SE can take, end of story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tonkra

this is a roleplaying game. so marriage means, what it would mean in real life also. a deep relationship and not just a friendship. you know the difference?

when you ask someone to "marry you" its not meant to be "ah lets be the best friends forever". you are going to marry in a church ingame. so we all should know what a marriage implies. of course you cant have sex in Final Fantasy. its still just a fantasy game.

just lets end this "discussion", really strange what people can "discuss" about ;XD

Spongebob didnt marry Patrick Star, because he gave him a "BFF" (best friends forever) ring. we are talking about marriage. if you want just a ring or a symbol to show you are befriend with your chocobo then ask for an additional ingame option.
but thats not marriage.

---

Eh??

So what does an MMO marriage entail that would exclude someone from marrying their chocobo?

Substantively, isn't BFF and a MMO marriage the exact same thing? We all know that there's no sex in the game.

So why have a different name for it?

And why can't a player have multiple BFF/marriages?
I know of many players would love to have a harem in their house.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Eh??

So what does an MMO marriage entail that would exclude someone from marrying their chocobo?

Substantively, isn't BFF and a MMO marriage the exact same thing? We all know that there's no sex in the game.

[...]So why have a different name for it?

---

i ask you an other question, why do you want to call it marriage? marriage is a fixed definition like friendship is. either you are too stupid for that (sorry to say) to understand this or just to ignorant or you just want to annoy people.

and that you cant watch "sex scenes" ingame.. does not mean, that there is no "sex" in eorzea (i cant believe i am talking about that XD). like in EVERY RPG (which means roleplaying) there is much of fantasy and imagination needed. or how do you think the babies come to eorzea? why are there different genders? so you really asking such things?
besides that, marriage is not all about sex..



marriage in FFXIV would not mean ANY different what it would mean in real life. what dont you understand about this anyways? how come then, Yoshi P. is unsure about implementing same sex marriage? because marriage in FFXIV means the same what it means in real life and not "i want to be your best friend forever"....


ask for a "BFF" friendship symbol if you really want to have something like that.
marriage is marriage, and friendship is friendship. like a tree is a tree and a bird is a bird. yea and still in a roleplaying game like FFXIV. DEFINITIONS

god damn..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Eh??

So what does an MMO marriage entail that would exclude someone from marrying their chocobo?

Substantively, isn't BFF and a MMO marriage the exact same thing? We all know that there's no sex in the game.

So why have a different name for it?

And why can't a player have multiple BFF/marriages?
I know of many players would love to have a harem in their house.

---

No sex in FFXIV, and yet there are children, and those children have parents. O___O

If its existence wasn't specifically demonstrated in gameplay, would you insist that there's no oxygen in Eorzea too?

So what happens in a year or so, when the remaining same sex marriage bans in the US get overturned? Will XIV:ARR be next up on the docket!?!

I wish SE didn't put it out on the table like they did, essentially forcing them to take a side. Seeking feedback on the issue, during development, while they clearly can implement it however they'd like in-time for launch (hint: launch date anyone??). I'd guess they're going to implement it as they suggested, with a SSM ban, which is understandable given culture differences, but still a dated decision that I believe would offend a larger and broader gaming population than simply including SSM, primarily because of the 'real-world' attention this issue is receiving these days.

The suggestion of just changing it to some sort of renamed plutonic commitment ceremony isn't bad... but still an obvious cop-out since SE has already termed it 'marriage'. Under the guise of "this is just a fantasy game world", it would still be a better alternative than just going with the SSM ban. Either way, I can understand taking offense to whatever SE decides, but I don't think it should be a dealbreaker for anyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keisuna

No sex in FFXIV, and yet there are children, and those children have parents. O___O

---

Dont forget about the prostitutes in Uldah ^^ ;XD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tonkra

Dont forget about the prostitutes in Uldah ^^ ;XD

---

They're not prostitutes, they're provocative dancers meant to inspire people to...um...go mining! That's right :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keisuna

They're not prostitutes, they're provocative dancers meant to inspire people to...um...go mining! That's right :P

---

yea, "prostitutes" was a little too harsh maybe. but you got what i meant ;XD

MArriage first off is a political driven idea, not religious. Nor did the word actually exist in many reglious factions, including any Abrahamic system, until later tranlations.

In a game. Based on fantasy, what ever it is called, isn't important. Technially Marriage has no religious foundation even if many want to claim it. THe TRUE definition did not men man and woman, but the unity of two unique things for a common bond, such as the marriage of music and poetry.

In a fantasy game, you can not use real life beliefs and faiths as doctrine, because in many faiths, simply play the game, and paying tribute in a fantasy to other deities is a violation of many doctrines. Remember that first in case you completed living on a prayer.

******* blabla

In a game where you can be a RL guy and play in game girl, which often happens, and vice a versa, choosing to play a small creature, a half cat, or beastly Roegadyn, having a debate about same sex marriage is about the stupidest thing ever.

Player to player marriage no matter the race, sex, or whatever.

If Vivi and Quina can do it!!!!!!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tonkra

TODAY you may be right.. but not in the middleage and whenever

besides that.. in FFXIV you are going to marry in a church

what does it tell you? it means exactly the same thing what it is meaning in RL. a fantasy scenario like in FFXIV IS the mirror of real life.. why are you making such awkward disctions between game and real life? ;XD



sorry thats just based on your own thoughts and imagination how marriage in FFXIV is defined..

how come that yoshi p. says that they are going to go with marriage with the traditional marriage of opposite genders.. and that it is a "complicated" topic (same sex marriage) when marriage in FFXIV is going to mean any different than in real life?..

sorry but your opinion is just so wrong..

---

In a temple, or a church, but it is not your church, that's the first difference. Marriages are a legal binding of one person to another person, weddings are the ceremony, and they don't all occur in a church, some in a park, some in a synagogue , on a boat , a mosque ,or a reception hall, some don't even have priests.

Second, games do not have to worry about the legal aspects as they are not binding and between avatars, providing only the ceremony. A Las Vegas drive in chapel is more binding.

The third is that judging on the genders of the avatars or the players will cause cross players to be screwed out of content all because of a "Complicated issue.". An issue that, mind you, was no issue at all in screenshot and cutscenes during 1.0.

Put it this way, SE has no problem with miqotes being bisexual or talking suggestive behavior with. women, but a dedicated loving relationship is off the table and "complicated"? That's a sorry excuse.

im not against same sex marriage lol ^^ but marry an animal.. sorry.. its called marriage.. and not "friendship ceremony".

marriage is a normal word which has its definition. When SE is saying they are going to implement a marriage system, everyone should know what it is meant to be.

Like yoshida stated already.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kallera

Put it this way, SE has no problem with miqotes being bisexual or talking suggestive behavior with women, but a dedicated loving relationship is off the table and "complicated"? That's a sorry excuse.

---

Of course it's complicated*!

*complicated meaning "no longer solely an avenue for dudes to fantasize about two women getting down with the potential to insert themselves into the equation."

I really hate that Zantetsuken has been making a mockery of the subject for so long and people still reply.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

I really hate that Zantetsuken has been making a mockery of the subject for so long and people still reply.

---

I know. I'm sorry.

The willful ignorance and outright offensiveness makes the blood vessels burst in my head.

Dolphins... that is all.

* blows kisses to everyone*
If Se won't marry you, I will roleplay style =^-^=

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kyri

* blows kisses to everyone*
If Se won't marry you, I will roleplay style =^-^=

---

I said that like 100 pages back >.>/

either way screw marrying in a chapel I wanna get married out in the forest somewhere or in the snow!!!! or in the rain!~

Can I sing in the rain?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tonkra

im not against same sex marriage lol ^^ but marry an animal.. sorry.. its called marriage.. and not "friendship ceremony".

---

I don't understand why so many people opposed to "same sex marriage" feel the need to reveal themselves to be closet bestiality folk. Such "pet" urges belong in a separate topic.

And if someone believes "marriage" has a strict definition, for example, "between a man and a woman", then they should be arguing it has no place at all in a video game, where there are no men, no women, no offspring, and no God as well.