An Open Letter to Yoshida-san: Please Slice One Zero Off the Housing Prices

World A market prices compared to Legacy World market prices

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

About that:

Results:
Higland Parsley: Them 100 ea Us 110. NOT 2.5 times the price like housing is. (250 ea)
Buttons in a Blanket: Them 845ea Us 950each Not 2.5 times the price like housing is (2113 ea)
Button Mushrooms: Them 85ea Us 60ea. Not 2.5 times like price of housing (213 ea)
Sun Lemons: Them 170ea Us 200 ea. Not 2.5 times like price of housing (425ea)
HQ Vanya Robe or Healing: Them 100K Us 125K Not 2.5 times like price of housing (250K)

My point, your arguement is moote because IF gil was really inflated on my legacy server to 2.5 times the value of gil on 'World A' servers, then our prices would be closer to those in the parenthesis and NOT basically the same as the World A prices.

...Stop believing 'legacy markets are inflated' 'Legacy players are loaded' We're most simply nothing of the sort. When our gil was redominated...90% of all 1.0 weath was erased.

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This cannot be quoted enough. If people truly think our servers are inflated then most obvious place that would show this inflation would be the market board. Obviously, it isn't.

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Originally Posted by Taekrys

"Why did SE make so hard to strip ignorants from their money?"

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Ah the good old days. Fun times.

In all seriousness, we need more consumable type things for sellers(me) to "strip" people of their money. Useful food, useful potions, vanity items, pvp armor that is actually convertable, materia that isn't completely useless. Just to name a few things. Most things on the market board are either useless or can be completely ignored.

The players need to feel empowered. Right now, they seem like some combination of confused, bored and frustrated. From what I understand of game design, that's never a good thing, and I'm sure most aren't going to wait around 3 months for the possibility of a fix.

I belong to a large FC and I will not probably stay with them forever, however that being said I have no issue with supplying FC members with 90% of my gill for the purchase of a house. Gil has no value, pride in ownership, knowing what you did to accomplish a goal is something far more greater. If you RMT and cheat to get there where is the pride in that.
I believe in leaving something with my legacy in it, so that when a new person 3-4 years down the road walks into a FC house that I helped raise money for, they will be in awe. I don't need my name inscribed on the wall or to hold a title for it, I will always know what I did to accomplish a goal for many no matter the size of ones individual contribution.
It is important to remember that everything comes down to the individual person and how they perceive themselves, do they take pride in their accomplishments no matter how unnoticed they may go, or do you need constant acknowledgement...I always remember this "Smile".

Daily Bump of Justice. Lower the prices SE. Killing the economy.

Last day of year and no FC House. Hopefully this will change 2014.

Happy New Year Everyone!

Daily Bump of Justice.

And - the thread dies - without single relevant asnwer from Yoshi or devs - way to treat the community and your customers SE!

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Originally Posted by HEC

And - the thread dies - without single relevant asnwer from Yoshi or devs - way to treat the community and your customers SE!

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Except for this and this and a little bit of this.

But that isn't the "free, zero effort houses for everyone" answer you wanted, is it?

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Originally Posted by Felis

You forgot this

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Right, good catch.

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

You know good and damn well that is not what people asked for. Stop making false arguments. It's really sad to see a Lalafell lying through her teeth on such a frequent basis.

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Except I'm not lying.

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Originally Posted by Beetle

Heres a far better way to fix housing... Just dont make it cost gil. Make it cost FC points.

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...which would essentially allow nearly everyone to get their land on day 1 without having to do anything but click the buy button.

And then the housing servers crash and people cry.

I don't lie. Ever. And shame on you for accusing me of doing so.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

Except for this and this and a little bit of this.

But that isn't the "free, zero effort houses for everyone" answer you wanted, is it?

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You forgot this

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

But that isn't the "free, zero effort houses for everyone" answer you wanted, is it?

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Poor strawman attempt.

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Originally Posted by KraggyKor

Poor strawman attempt.

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Babby's first buzzword!

Seriously, once the devaluation finishes, the prices will be downright reasonable. At 27 active players, each donating a minimum of 100k/week, and with a weekly average of 350k per player per week, we'll have a large house in short order.

On the other hand, one of my linkshells tallied up how much gil we knew some of the earlier wealthy crafters had, specifically the ones that quit. Between the 12 names we came up with, there was 480M+ gil removed from the economy when they quit.

Oooh!! I hadn't seen one of those links, the one that gave date & time for scheduled price reductions. The first one was yesterday.

Now on Balmung ("Group B", world tier 4), a 20M (cheapest small plot) would have been ~18M on the original prices. Now it's 14.5M. That's a 4M drop overnight. :) :)
The 250M one (cheapest large plot) would have been ~226M on original prices. Now it's 181M. That's a 45M drop overnight. :D :D
Edit: Just for completeness, cheapest medium dropped from 68M to 54M (a 14M drop). :) :D

Well, being on the most expensive server group, I have to admit that I'm still not fully pleased with the pricing as it is now.

However, as there is still only one small house purchased on my server, hopefully their re-evaluation will cause them to drop the prices even lower.

My birthday is near the end of the month and it would be a wonderful birthday present if prices could reach a somewhat reasonable number by then.

In the meantime, I've been leveling archer/brd to help with farming, and been getting my crafting classes geared up and materia'd. I HQ'd a Vanya robe for my husband during the hoildays, and I felt fantastic about it! I know everyone says it's easy to HQ 2 star items, but they always say everything is easy. To me, this was an accomplishment! Hoping to have a home soon for our FC so I can start crafting furnitures to fill it :D

Pricing is in the process of dropping gradually. By SE's approximate timing, prices should be at the level of worlds tier 3 around the first week of March. Even better, unsold plots should be nearing half those prices. (Maybe at 5M/17M/56M gil for S/M/L?) Since they're meant to be shared by maybe 15/50/100 FC members, that seems quite "affordable" for active FCs.

As for by your birthday, I doubt prices will be less than 6M/23M/75M by then. But regardless, congrats on the HQ! ("They always say everything is easy": Too true! "I did that in a weekend" can often be more like three or four 19-hour days of gaming.) :)

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Originally Posted by BobtheBlackMage

Babby's first buzzword!

Seriously, once the devaluation finishes, the prices will be downright reasonable. At 27 active players, each donating a minimum of 100k/week, and with a weekly average of 350k per player per week, we'll have a large house in short order.

On the other hand, one of my linkshells tallied up how much gil we knew some of the earlier wealthy crafters had, specifically the ones that quit. Between the 12 names we came up with, there was 480M+ gil removed from the economy when they quit.

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Yeah...so again, why do SOME worlds have to wait for 'fair' prices while other worlds already have them?

How almost a month after all this first started, can you still not see that THAT is the part people have the most beef with. Not the fact that the prices are currently high, but that 10 servers specifically are being told 'yeah just wait' and/or being punished for saving up gil towards a home in the first place.


And yes, it's 'nice' to finally see prices dropping...but it still doesn't fix the 'wait until Marchish' problem.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

But that isn't the "free, zero effort houses for everyone" answer you wanted, is it?

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You know good and damn well that is not what people asked for. Stop making false arguments. It's really sad to see a Lalafell lying through her teeth on such a frequent basis.

With the update the prices went from 625mil max to 325mil on Masamune That quiet the drop ( it still needs to drop more obviously) but this is a great start.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

Not the fact that the prices are currently high, but that 10 servers specifically are being told 'yeah just wait' and/or being punished for saving up gil towards a home in the first place.

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I liked your post because I also don't like SE's "say we released housing but make it completely unaffordable" tactic. But I would disagree that their policy was any different towards legacy worlds. They wanted all worlds to take almost the full 3 months to be able to afford housing, and that appears to be what's happening.

The exorbitant prices on legacy worlds could have been set to make sure a bunch of the "filthy rich" couldn't pool money to buy housing at a noticeably faster rate than non-legacy worlds. That would both tank SE's housing server capacity and make a lot of non-legacy customers very angry.

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Originally Posted by ArkhamNative

The exorbitant prices on legacy worlds could have been set to make sure a bunch of the "filthy rich" couldn't pool money to buy housing at a noticeably faster rate than non-legacy worlds.

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I think it was a couple things.

1. To get the "world first" crowd, who are also likely to hold a significant percentage of the gil on legacy worlds, to spend that gil on houses and even out the wealth distribution a bit. SE figured there would be some people who would buy land for almost any price (and they did).

2. To make sure that housing plots aren't bought up faster than SE can add new housing servers. This is the main reason behind the high prices.

This is something some people appear to be forgetting. This housing thing was planned out and put into motion two years ago--for as long as ARR has been in development. When SE did their capacity planning, they were not expecting over 600,000 subscribers. It is no small detail to expand a server infrastructure to support so many additional users, particularly when you're dealing with the complexity of a virtual world. If you ask me (and you didn't) it makes more sense in the long run to start prices too high and lower them until plots get bought up at a pace that's comfortable for them. Can you imagine what this place would look like if SE were to come here and say, "Oh, people are buying plots too quickly. We need to raise the prices so we can keep up with demand."

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Originally Posted by Taaz

Daily Bump of Justice. Some nice adjustments made, but still far too high for the cornerstone of patch 2.1. Keep it bumping guys, maybe they'll keep it lowering :D

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Not bumping this thread anymore, as the conversation has panned out and it's just going around in circles now. Also tired of being called a liar when I have said no lie at all.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

You're not a liar. You just resort to strawman arguments, which is just as fallacious, and shows that you have no valid argument.

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You're the one full of strawman arguments (because you don't know what a strawman argument is--you just like saying "strawman" a lot I guess) and conjecture. And you don't have a leg to stand on in any argument, Mr. "I'm the one and only person in my Free Company and I'm mad because I can't buy a house by myself".

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Originally Posted by AmnesiaHaze

i almost forgot housing exists and doing other stuff, its so of reach even trying to save 10% of a house seems impossible

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Really? Because my FC has saved over 10% of the total cost of the house we want, and it's only taken us a few weeks to do that. Once more, it's whine whine whine without actually trying to see what you can do. Give it some effort, it isn't as difficult as you think it is.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

*snip*

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And yet you continually fall back to the fallacious argument that people just "want housing with no effort."

Daily Bump of Justice. Some nice adjustments made, but still far too high for the cornerstone of patch 2.1. Keep it bumping guys, maybe they'll keep it lowering :D

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Originally Posted by ArkhamNative

I liked your post because I also don't like SE's "say we released housing but make it completely unaffordable" tactic. But I would disagree that their policy was any different towards legacy worlds. They wanted all worlds to take almost the full 3 months to be able to afford housing, and that appears to be what's happening.

The exorbitant prices on legacy worlds could have been set to make sure a bunch of the "filthy rich" couldn't pool money to buy housing at a noticeably faster rate than non-legacy worlds. That would both tank SE's housing server capacity and make a lot of non-legacy customers very angry.

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They could have achieved this in other ways:

-How about requiring a Level 10 FC instead of 6? Currently my FC is just shy of level 8. (So it'd be at least Feb before we could consider buying a home if level 10 was the threshold).
-How about making it a questable adventure that had to be cleared by x amount of FC players. Maybe a Full party of 8 or something.
-How about hiding it behind Guild Company Storylines that require more questing to complete...

etc...you get the idea.
The point: with any of the above options, you can treat new and old player servers the same. That should have been SE's number 1 objective.

As to the 'server strain' well...then they either should have put up more walls to keep us out (see above), or have been, I don't know...HONEST. And said 'hey guys, we were planning on releasing housing this patch, but it's been delayed until we can be sure we can provide the best experience/servers possible'.

But even this 'server strain' arguement I call 'BS'. There are currently, right now on every world 450 housing plots. On most Legacy worlds 1-3 have been purchased. On most non-legacy 3-9ish (I believe). Most worlds don't even HAVE 450 FC's that would actually wish to buy a house.

And then we have the 'get the gil out of circulation' arguement.
They could have done that, and slowed down purchases with a system basically opposite that they put in place.
1. Houses start reasonably priced
2. Players bid on property.
-If a bid is placed, the price goes up, if another player then bids on that same land within maybe 12-18ish hours, the price goes up again.
-If no one else bids before timer is up=plot sold to highest bidder
3. If no one bids on that plot at all, then it's price drops 0.14%

This would have made the 'need it now!' FC's pay a premium for their 'best house'/'best ward' and still allowed for the same prices on each server. It would have also allowed prices to fall evenly over time. No one would have felt screwed. And Prices on Legacy worlds for the 'biggest and best' very well might have hit astronomical price tags as bidding wars errupted, but on new worlds, where supposedly less weath is, the numbers would never reach the same levels.

If people would then be worried 'well but all it takes is one person to keep bidding up prices to screw everyone else'
1. Make it so only FC members with bidding permission can place bids
2. You can only bid with money currently in your possession
3. You can only bid on one lot per time...and your bid is locked in until that property is sold.
4. Once a FC owns a plot, they cannot buy anymore land.
5. In the event a FC decides to sell their lot, it is sold back to the game and not purchasable by other players.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

~lots of good stuff~

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Thank you! I like all of your ideas, and any of them, if they had been implemented, would have made for much less frustration and anger all around.

Hopefully they'll notice some of these ideas and keep them in mind for future content options.

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Originally Posted by MortalWare

This is the game for you: WILDSTAR HOUSING I would have liked to see similar for this game, perhaps a quest chain or even just dailies that the whole FC could do to help get a house, but clearly that is not going to happen. Unfortunately.

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Omg SE give us this kind of housing....PLEASE!

So... there are 2 properties owned in the shroud on pandy, one of them is owned by a free company of 2 members. SE have tried to stop people from using their silly amounts of gil to buy all the houses, but really they have just made it harder for free companies to beat those few players to the punch.

they should have made it a condition that your free company still has at least 4 members (it took 4 to form the damn thing) and set it so that you would have to spend a lot of FC points instead of gil (that way everyone is putting in the effort) also I agree with Kinseykinz that you should be a higher rank.

all in all they should have made it harder for a 2 man FC with loads of gil and easier for a 20 man FC of more casual players who all put in a joint effort.

also just in case you were curious this is the FC that bought a house before anybody else had the money, well done SE.
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...729062/member/

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Originally Posted by Cor_Dirge

So... there are 2 properties owned in the shroud on pandy, one of them is owned by a free company of 2 members.

all in all they should have made it harder for a 2 man FC with loads of gil and easier for a 20 man FC of more casual players who all put in a joint effort.

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They could be a married couple. My husband and I have our own FC made with a few alts I created. This is because we have wanted shared housing since we met in FFXI.

I agree that getting a house should be based on more than just a crap-ton of gil. But I don't think it should be based on number of people in the company.

I just wanted to bring up one thing (I had a long post typed out, but apparently I'm too long winded to make a real post.) Is anyone happy with the small FC houses? The large and medium houses are absolutely breathtaking. The small are an absolute joke. I wouldn't even want that for personal housing. They could have at least given them two or three levels at that size.

I think the housing prices are still way too high, but I'm on a legacy server. I think SE is REALLY out of touch with how much people make on the server. I'm a non-legacy player, and the second richest I know of (with the first being a 1.0 gil capped character with all classes at 50.) Our economy is absolutely trashed, and there's only three houses bought. If they wanted to bleed gil out of the economy, they failed, because now everyone is hoarding, so theres probably more gil than ever.

Not feeling hopeful about personal housing at all.

Small houses = Inn room.

If it was personal housing, the size might be OK for a small house. But yep, for a FC the size of the small houses is a joke. Seems designed for 1 character, not a FC

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Originally Posted by Saraphiel

Is anyone happy with the small FC houses? The large and medium houses are absolutely breathtaking. The small are an absolute joke. I wouldn't even want that for personal housing. They could have at least given them two or three levels at that size.

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Quite a few people have said this. There's a separate Housing forum here with some more discussion.

I was in one with a bed alcove and seating for around 10. It was nice for its size, but it seemed tiny considering all the trophy (primal) furniture that could never fit into it. If the large house is a spacious SUV or minivan, and medium is a big luxury car, the small is a sub-compact. SE seems to have skipped the mid-size car that it should have been.

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Originally Posted by MortalWare

This is the game for you: WILDSTAR HOUSING I would have liked to see similar for this game, perhaps a quest chain or even just dailies that the whole FC could do to help get a house, but clearly that is not going to happen. Unfortunately.

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Yes, Wildstar housing is absolutely amazing. It actually shocks me that in years of working on housing, all SE could come up with was instances and massive prices. It really makes me question the development chops of SE to see such a narrow vision of FC housing. I'm sure personal housing will be just as uninspired.

*daily bump*

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Originally Posted by MortalWare

This is the game for you: WILDSTAR HOUSING I would have liked to see similar for this game, perhaps a quest chain or even just dailies that the whole FC could do to help get a house, but clearly that is not going to happen. Unfortunately.

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The Wildstar Housing looks Amazing!!! This is how SE should do housing. But, NO there has to be a 3 month grind just to get a small or medium house. Plus SE punished the Legacy 1.0 players for there loyality.

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Originally Posted by MortalWare

This is the game for you: WILDSTAR HOUSING I would have liked to see similar for this game, perhaps a quest chain or even just dailies that the whole FC could do to help get a house, but clearly that is not going to happen. Unfortunately.

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that is off the charts amazing

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

Not bumping this thread anymore, as the conversation has panned out and it's just going around in circles now. Also tired of being called a liar when I have said no lie at all.

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You're not a liar. You just resort to strawman arguments, which is just as fallacious, and shows that you have no valid argument.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

You're not a liar. You just resort to strawman arguments, which is just as fallacious, and shows that you have no valid argument.

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While it is also a strawman argument, claiming that people just want houses "without any effort" when absolutely no one here has said that is, in fact, a flat-out lie, as well.

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Originally Posted by cainejw

Yes, Wildstar housing is absolutely amazing. It actually shocks me that in years of working on housing, all SE could come up with was instances and massive prices. It really makes me question the development chops of SE to see such a narrow vision of FC housing. I'm sure personal housing will be just as uninspired.

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*nods*

Nearly everything about 2.0 is uninspired, actually.

SE will eventually tank this game with it's insistence on choking the economy into obscurity, in 12 years of playing MMO's the one constant I always hear is that without a player controlled economy games die.

In this game crafters are prolific and largely useless, a large segment of job skills are made irrelevant outside of being nothing more than go to when bored time sinks, an economy is supposed to enable crafters to gain profit somehow, and every patch seems to make it just more futile.

With the housing patch SE failed hard on that subject, they have been failing hard on the economy since the game released.

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Originally Posted by MortalWare

This is the game for you: WILDSTAR HOUSING I would have liked to see similar for this game, perhaps a quest chain or even just dailies that the whole FC could do to help get a house, but clearly that is not going to happen. Unfortunately.

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I am a huge fan of FFXIV, I love this game and I love this world, I supported it since 1.0 and I'm not going anywhere. But just being honest here, it is shameful to watch this video and compare it to what is on display in these forums. Not just the huge array of features in Wildstar Housing compared to FFXIV's barebones; not just how it is a 'core gameplay mechanic' compared to FFXIV's 'tacked-on servers-can-barely-run-it affair; but especially that the video's ending tagline is "Remember, the devs are listening."

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Originally Posted by Fatestorm

I am a huge fan of FFXIV, I love this game and I love this world, I supported it since 1.0 and I'm not going anywhere. But just being honest here, it is shameful to watch this video and compare it to what is on display in these forums. Not just the huge array of features in Wildstar Housing compared to FFXIV's barebones; not just how it is a 'core gameplay mechanic' compared to FFXIV's 'tacked-on servers-can-barely-run-it affair; but especially that the video's ending tagline is "Remember, the devs are listening."

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Too bad that video is a beta video blog and it's reflecting personal housing, not guild. Can't wait for it to launch and listen to all the players complain they only have a campsite and can't afford the mansion of their dreams.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Too bad that video is a beta video blog and it's reflecting personal housing, not guild. Can't wait for it to launch and listen to all the players complain they only have a campsite and can't afford the mansion of their dreams.

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I can assure you that this video is an accurate representation of housing in that game. I realize that you are likely devoted to FFXIV, but that does not mean you cannot realize that this game fumbled the ball on housing.