Tank healing is to high

And on the subject of healers since it's been such a hot topic in this thread.

This issue really goes to show why healing is such a flawed role in MMOs. Because healing requires content to be hard for it to even be engaging (if people aren't taking damage and lots of it which requires enemies that are actually posing a serious threat to players), and because most players are just bad and will cry about any sort of challenge, challenge ends up being taken away. Thus, healing becomes obsolete. Healers just serve as scuffed dps. I don't think it needs to be too hard, I've found FFXIV's healing to be the most fun and engaging in any game I've played and mayhap I'm odd to feel that way, but I think there's a sweet spot where healing is both challenging enough to be engaging, but not too challenging that a person with a functioning brain could handle it. But that ultimately means the content needs to be challenging for everyone, not just the healer. You need devs who know where that sweet spot is and refuse to budge when their playerbase complains it's "too hard".

A good rule of thumb should be, if any further nerf would make healing effectively useless, than it's going too far. If you nerf content or buff tanks to the point where healers no longer need to exist than you've gone overboard. But, sadly, I've never seen a game where the devs had the capacity to recognize this. I had thought SE was that developer but it's starting to appear that they're going in the wrong direction by trying to make healing more accessible which will only render it totally obsolete. If I don't have to heal, than why does my role exist?

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Originally Posted by Szylver

is it just me, or pld are using clemency 24/7 to piss of the healers?

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Yes, that's exactly it.

We also only use weaponskills and offensive cooldowns to make DPS mad.

But don't tell anyone, it's a secret.

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

And on the subject of healers since it's been such a hot topic in this thread.

This issue really goes to show why healing is such a flawed role in MMOs. Because healing requires content to be hard for it to even be engaging (if people aren't taking damage and lots of it which requires enemies that are actually posing a serious threat to players), and because most players are just bad and will cry about any sort of challenge, challenge ends up being taken away. Thus, healing becomes obsolete. Healers just serve as scuffed dps. I don't think it needs to be too hard, I've found FFXIV's healing to be the most fun and engaging in any game I've played and mayhap I'm odd to feel that way, but I think there's a sweet spot where healing is both challenging enough to be engaging, but not too challenging that a person with a functioning brain could handle it. But that ultimately means the content needs to be challenging for everyone, not just the healer. You need devs who know where that sweet spot is and refuse to budge when their playerbase complains it's "too hard".

A good rule of thumb should be, if any further nerf would make healing effectively useless, than it's going too far. If you nerf content or buff tanks to the point where healers no longer need to exist than you've gone overboard. But, sadly, I've never seen a game where the devs had the capacity to recognize this. I had thought SE was that developer but it's starting to appear that they're going in the wrong direction by trying to make healing more accessible which will only render it totally obsolete. If I don't have to heal, than why does my role exist?

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The effect is magnified by the fact that the healer downtime kits have been stripped to the point that their non-healing activities are painfully, unacceptably boring. Tanks being able to cover most of the healing side of things just adds even more time to the endless tedious 111111111111111.

We're stuck between a rock and a hard place here, and it's all down to the stultifying set of stated design goals the developers have. Asking for tank healing to be nerfed is one of the attempts to dodge around the annoying cage they've put the healer role in. They stated pretty much outright in recent live letters that they refuse to increase the engagement for the downtime kits. Re. Fuse. And then they go and add even more sustain to the tank role and give healers even more opportunity to die of boredom with their horrible 1111111111111111111 downtime.

I know that's the answer to why this thread is here. The tanks telling the healers to go ask for healers to be fixed instead of nerfing tanks don't get it- they've literally ignored every single healer request to fix this garbage for multiple expansions now.

I mean, warrior had the same raw healing toolkit in shadowbringer. To an extend paladin did too if they casted clemency during requiescat window. EW only brought it to the forefront by making it more obvious.

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Originally Posted by Shinkirou

I mean, warrior had the same raw healing toolkit in shadowbringer.

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They increased Nascent's duration, doubled its mitigation over its first 4 seconds, and raised its potency floor (tremendously in AoE); all that atop a shield for Raw Intuition (now Bloodwhetting); added a heal to Shake it Off (patch change, not trait); and added a 1000 potency heal to Equilibrium. That's... not the same raw healing.

Yes, it could do ridiculous things already, but at least that required some banking, foresight, and, for harder challenges, a bit of butt-clenching. Now it's relatively effortless to do far more. Which... doesn't feel great for good WARs or anyone else, by way of competition or simply having all the less to do (*cough* healers *cough*).

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

doesn't feel great for good WARs or anyone else, by way of competition or simply having all the less to do (*cough* healers *cough*).

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Speak for yourself, I am having the time of my life (since ShB). My healers so far were also happy to have me, apparently I don't run into those guys that hate WARs selfhealing, only ever hear about it in the english forums.

Yes we did get alot of new healing tools, those are appreciated but hardly that what makes our selfsustain so strong, the increased mitigation on BW on top of the healing is not really noticable anyway since during the duration we top outselves so it hardly matters, this is only useful for bossfights and raids rather than dungeons the 2 extra seconds help tho. WAR is in a good place. DRK does need adjustments tho because I don't know many healers that enjoy walking them through dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

The effect is magnified by the fact that the healer downtime kits have been stripped to the point that their non-healing activities are painfully, unacceptably boring. Tanks being able to cover most of the healing side of things just adds even more time to the endless tedious 111111111111111.

We're stuck between a rock and a hard place here, and it's all down to the stultifying set of stated design goals the developers have. Asking for tank healing to be nerfed is one of the attempts to dodge around the annoying cage they've put the healer role in. They stated pretty much outright in recent live letters that they refuse to increase the engagement for the downtime kits. Re. Fuse. And then they go and add even more sustain to the tank role and give healers even more opportunity to die of boredom with their horrible 1111111111111111111 downtime.

I know that's the answer to why this thread is here. The tanks telling the healers to go ask for healers to be fixed instead of nerfing tanks don't get it- they've literally ignored every single healer request to fix this garbage for multiple expansions now.

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Speak for yourself. Some of us love the current design just saying.

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Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in

Speak for yourself. Some of us love the current design just saying.

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I can't wait until tank gameplay is streamlined to its peak. It'll be so well-designed and enjoyable for you when Paladin's rotation becomes
Fast Blade. Fast Blade. Fast Blade. Fast Blade. Fast Blade. Fast Blade (Rampart). Fast Blade. Fast Blade. Fast Blade. Fast Blade. Fast Blade. Fast Blade. Fast Blade. Fast Blade.

Best design. So good. Complexity bad. Too hard.

Eh, as long as it does 75% of a Melee's dps in raid it'll be fine

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

I can't wait until tank gameplay is streamlined to its peak. It'll be so well-designed and enjoyable for you when Paladin's rotation becomes
Fast Blade. Fast Blade. Fast Blade. Fast Blade. Fast Blade. Fast Blade (Rampart). Fast Blade. Fast Blade. Fast Blade. Fast Blade. Fast Blade. Fast Blade. Fast Blade. Fast Blade.

Best design. So good. Complexity bad. Too hard.

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That would be boring and stable. As I said healing is different because you have to heal not just press broil over and over lmao.