DPS who do 4k worth of damage = garbage tier

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Originally Posted by Ruf

So because I tell you that you are full of elitism you claim everyone is dumber for reading what I typed? Again, Bourne_Endeavor, you have no clue, that was a childish reply,worst than mine

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The word elitism is over used by far. It kinda lost it's meaning now, because of how people like you approach the word and how you use it. It's that bad. You must be telling how everyone who climbs the ladder for a good job position irl, from the bottom must be a elitist because they try their best. The people in this game who tries their best and actually provides help in farm/clear groups with good attitude in how to play the game, they must be elitist. One more thing, all those people who helped you cleared content must been elitist too. Why not tell them? They will mostlikely laugh at you then ask you for never ask them again. That my friend, is how bad it sounds like.

So my wife as a Warrior tank that could hit 3.5 - 4k in 4.2 was going really good then, Great I will let her know when she wakes ups, She always feels like she isn't doing really good.
We took the last 3 weeks off and just finished the main story this yesterday. I however don't raid, but our discord has numbers posted after most raids by one of the DPS who lives and dies by the numbers.
2 of our DD in our FC often hit 6 to 7k in 4.2, I can't stand the person who posts the number even if my wife says it's helped her optimize her rotation, I play for fun and don't care if I am perfect. If people want prefections they should stop playing and start working on bots.

I know she spent 3+ hours working on a dummy to get the train cheese down. So I'm not sure how a parsers would help that. She just worked on mussle memory.

As for IG parsers I'm for them if they are for savage content only and have a vote all yes to enable, like the video record fuction.

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Originally Posted by CrystalRainbow

As for IG parsers I'm for them if they are for savage content only and have a vote all yes to enable, like the video record fuction.

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I would be fine with this only function in savage and ex primals. If people do know they are doing low performance, whos fault is that? Mine? Yours? Nope, it's only the person behind the character. Problem with a parser in only 2 content types, is that peopel who go in there think they do good, but find out they are not that good, they have to know from somewhere how they performance is, before doing said content.

If an ingame dps meter would have any kind of restrictions to what ACT already does, we'd just keep using ACT.

You know, I've been trying to be nice and civil, but the "Special" Group is just getting more and more ridiculous.

Hey, I don't like Elitism more than anybody else when it is shoved down my throat by more elite players, but the people on the opposite end (Lunaxia, Ruf, etc) are just making themselves look more stupid with each thing they post.


Guys, really. Just stop. Even somebody like me can step back and admit that parsing DOES have its uses and it helps players understand a fight, and gauge their own performance relative to others' (something the base game doesn't let you do very easily) and if you're trying to do Savage Raids/Ex Primals, you kind of do need to be at the top of your game.

If you can't handle Parsing and receiving criticism for putting out low DPS and putting the whole group in danger, then I'm sorry, but you don't belong in a savage raid group. Sorry, you don't.

But you know what? There's no shame in this. There's nothing wrong with not being cut out for the elite high-end content. Nothing at all wrong with that. I freely admit that I, myself, do not belong in Savage Raids. But yet you don't see me in here going on and on and on attacking players who are.

As long as Savage Raiders don't show up in my Normal/Duty Finder content with condescending/elite attitudes, then I'm fine with those kinds of people. I can coexist as long as they are willing to accept that "normals" just don't play at that level.

So why don't you guys just show yourself out the door, because really, you are just making yourselves look worse with each post you make, and you're doing a great job in making yourselves look like fools. The "parsers" (raiders) are trying to be civil, and they're using logic, and clear cohesive language to explain things, and your posts are oftentimes riddled with spelling and grammar mistakes and are just off-the-wall insane troll logic and it really doesn't look good for you. It is clear that YOU (not they) are the ones fanning the flames because you just can't let it go.

Not doing any personal attacks here or anything but just simply telling you what it looks like from an outside perspective.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

You

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Seen more low performancers talk shit to others than the ones who actually do well. That's my own personal experience.

@Ruf I'm confused.... when did high dps ever equal failing mechanics? Failure to do mechanics in Savage+ means you die and a dead dps = no dps. You can't be top dps with out having extensive knowledge of a fight. Your posts just reek of perpetual ignorance.

To give my two cents about this topic and also ingore the war that was going on for pages.

My view on this:

I dont think that doing 4k DPS is being garbage tier.

I am an average to good player. I am not top but I at least know a bit about my job. (Last dummy was around 4.6k or something but I am also quite away from BiS and dont use any materia or items like that) I know that I am not the best and that as a summoner I could probably do much more and I did read up openers and try to follow it but I just cant handle the opener the way it should be so I am kinda landing in the average part of it. I try my best but there is simply a skill level that I cant reach.

I think its fine for dungeons and older extreme primals if you are at least decent on your job but I for once would not do recent primals if they need high DPS or even savage. I know that I am not the greatest so I stay out of content that needs high DPS to clear. Because otherwise I would just fail my group and hinder them which would be bad.

So being 4k is not garbage but one should ask themselves if they are truly ready for savage and for doing such hard group content. Raiding is simply not for everyone and people should not put the group down because they want to do something that is not on their skill level.

The only ones that I feel are garbage are those that are not even trying to play their job. Ice mages, the one monk that I had in my old FC who only used one combo (and not even the whole one) and did not know about the basics of their jobs.

Honestly if everyone would at least do around 4k and maybe understand the basics of their jobs we would be much further as a community, because those 4k players are not the problem (at least in normal content) but those that truly dont try it or dont care at all are.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

Seen more low performancers talk shit to others than the ones who actually do well. That's my own personal experience.

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The door swings both ways, I've seen the snobby elite with their Seattle Space Needle Nose up in the air complaining about the "filthy casuals" but then you know what, I've seen stuff like Ruf and Lunaxia on the other end too so yeah, you're not wrong by any means. Both are equally obnoxious.

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Originally Posted by Awha

tldr: Was it really necessary to call that person out in that way? Could you have gotten your point across regarding incorrect statement without going down such a road?

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(Dunno if you raid or not, so I'm writing as if you don't normally do savage. If I am wrong feel free to skip the first half of this post).

So as I said before I feel like there are three types of bad DPS>
1) Clear party bad DPS. DPS when you're new to the fight and have not optimized. You're just pushing buttons and are just doing DPS while mainly focusing on mechanics first.

2) Don't know your rotation bad DPS.

3) OH NO I died - bad DPS

My policy regarding clear parties is: getting the kill is the most important thing. So if you need to give up on some uptime for a mechanic you should do so. Your DPS might be "bad" as a result but there aren't any real DPS checks this tier and so if your DPS is "bad" because you did mechanics in a clear party, that's not a bad thing. IF that makes sense? Having bad DPS in a clear party is not ideal, but it's better than wiping constantly because you don't know how to do mechanics. What's important is your attitude regarding this DPS: Will you try to improve your DPS next time now that you've cleared?

Now the thing is that in this game your DPS is basically irrelevant in every piece of content outside 4 savage fights and ultimate. You can just press random buttons and go about your day. I know some raiders who'd say that with the current difficulty level of savage, your DPS in savage is also irrelevant. But they're also the sort of people who know what they're doing. But they and every decent raider I've met will agree that the moment you go into savage, it's stops being about you and more about the team because this is a team game. (people who go into savage to get fed cards or just have their co healer heal everything are not decent raiders IMO).

Savage fights are designed that you can clear them with any party comp (and often people make it easier by avoiding dupes or sticking to a traditional @ tank 2 healer 2 melee 1 ranged 1 caster comp)

SO as a DPS you have one basic job, which is to do DPS. In case this was not made clear enough earlier, 4k DPS might not mean you're garbage but it's definitely bad. Even if you're on a low personal DPS job like RDM or Ninja. 4K DPS was avg - below avg in deltascape depending on your job. To say that it's fine to do 4k DPS is just wrong.

Now the reason for this 4k dps can be a number of things. You could have died multiple times or you could still be using last tier's gear. In which case the obvious solution is to fix it. I'm not talking about 4k DPS at the start of this tier but currently, in this month when the tier's been out for a while. And of course, this does not mean that you can't get better. If you just cleared a fight or something and did 4K dps that makes sense. It's still bad, mind you, but the important thing is that you got the clear. And can improve next time.

That DRG was doing 2.3k DPS with one single death. At that point you're not just bad but you're an active detriment to a team. They're literally carrying your butt to the finish line. The other DRG in that parse died 5-6 times or something iirc and he still did more DPS than that poster. On top of that he said something as silly as "at the start of every tier we all start at the bottom" which is just straight up wrong. Rotations have been figured out since the start of SB. Not to mention you still should be doing at least average DPS for your job where it might decrease or increase based on mechanics that you see. Please see my above point bout "clear party" DPS.

That DRG was doing 2.3k. That's the DPS I did in heavensward. A full year and a 100 iLvL's ago. I originally was going to ask him if he even raided since what he said shows off his clear ignorance of the matter. But seeing his DPS on a fight where he died just once??? During this last month too? That guy isn't just doing mechanics, he straight up is just standing there doing nothing half the time. Not only that but he has not bothered to even look up any basic information about his job.

Now as I said, if this was a primal or something, I'd laugh, b-list him and move on. But in savage you have people who DID spend time practicing their rotations, buying food and pots and looking up fight information. In pugs they most likely went through numerous, terrible learning parties and clear parties before they came to that one. That DRG was not only ignorant but he also wasted the time and effort of 7 other people who had put in the work to clear content. Now sure o5S is an easy fight, but it's also about the principle of the thing: "Have you done the basic minimum to support your team?"

I have constantly seen guys like him when I'm pugging. And I have hated not having ACT every minute of it because I can't even leave a group because I don't know who's the problem. So if im the party leader, I can only disband a perfectly good party because I don't know what people are doing aside from the obvious "this person is dying repeatedly to the same mechanic" Sometimes I might have low DPS in which case, if it was a clear party, I should go back and join a learning party. But since I don't have a parser it's impossible to tell aside from
"well am I doing my rotation correctly and keeping uptime on the boss while doing mechanics?" "Yes?" "well with this gear im doing at least average damage so I doubt I'm the problem here"

If you wanna do savage content you should to know how to do your job. If you mess up that's perfectly fine, so long as you just try to improve next time. If he just did 4k dps or something like that I'd probably have left him alone, aside from saying he was wrong in what he said. But 2.3k?? THAT is "garbage tier DPS" He was very obviously saying such nonsense to justify why he was so terrible and he no doubt acts like this in-game as well. That's why I called him out on it. His attitude is terrible, his DPS is worse and he's clearly put in exactly 0 effort. He wasted people's time in game with that dps of his and I even checked to see if he'd just DC'd for most of the fight but that wasn't the case either. There's no grey area here. If he doesn't have the time to even learn a basic rotation then he shouldn't be doing savage in the first place. I don't mean this in a bad way. There's so much content to do in this game that's not savage. Dungeons, crafting, gathering, 24 mans, role-play, side quests, etc.

Perhaps it was in bad taste but I hope this explains why I called him out and why I'm not apologizing for it.