Would you like an in-game parser?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Interesting question. No, I'm not sure of it, but it's actually another problem. Let's say that a DPS check requires 4000 overall DPS. Let's say one DPS does 1000 and manage to do all mechanics. Let's say another DPS does 1500 but screw severals times on that phase. According to you, which one will be kicked ?

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Well, a proper raid group would keep both of them and work on the phase. Hypothetically though if it was a pug and someone had to be kicked then the one not doing the mechanics would be kicked. That's a pretty easy call. Anyone who would kick the person doing the mechanics and maintaining dps that is sufficient to complete the dungeon would be a moron. However, usually if someone is not doing mechanics their DPS will go down dramatically due to them being dead.

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Originally Posted by Asmodai

That's a pretty easy call.

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Which isn't made. Every time I see a team fail, it's "Oh, we don't have any DPS", because it's easier to keep that on check thanks to a parser.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

That's a hilariously slippery slope if you want to try and defend forum likes to a objective view of the player base. Even as a guy who has threads with several hundred likes I'm well aware that the forums opinion doesn't reflect the community as a whole.

The forums group is a pretty committed group of players and the type who know what a parser even is and how it can be used for good purposes. The majority of players in the game wouldn't even know what a parser is even if it slapped them in the face. It's these players and the small subsect of core players who would abuse this and use it to harass players rather than use it for personal gains. You overestimate the ability of players to use this tool for good instead of ill.

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Well, that's what we have to work with. Maybe we should be pushing SE for an official poll.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Interesting question. No, I'm not sure of it, but it's actually another problem. Let's say that a DPS check requires 4000 overall DPS. Let's say one DPS does 1000 and manage to do all mechanics. Let's say another DPS does 1500 but screw severals times on that phase. According to you, which one will be kicked ? The one who do enough and not screwing mechanics or the one wo do more than enough but fail the rest.

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Even if 1k dps is done and group manage to kill it, doesn't mean he did enough of his own weight. Keep in mind only 2 days after we beat seph we manages to do it with 7 people, that's 1 guy doing nothing in the entire fight. Things like this can happen, and I've seen it happen plenty of time in groups I don't know. That's why I said 85%. Good example, you join a ravana group back in the days when ilvl was lower, ever dps be pulling 1k plus while one does 550? Is that acceptable? Just because you can kill it, doesn't mean the guy pulled his own job correctly. if he was 800-850 that be better but when you are 450-500 behind everone else, you KNOW very well that's a carry and that's the biggues issue many here speaks of, including myself. Many just socialy accept 1 guy being bad, which is so freaking unfair to a whole group.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Which isn't made. Every time I see a team fail, it's "Oh, we don't have any DPS", because it's easier to keep that on check thanks to a parser.

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LIke the other guy said, the guy who dies will anyways do lower dps, no matter what. I only call out people who dies more than he should, if some one is doing less and survives the whole fight but somehow get enrage he has to do more damage. Easy call.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Which isn't made. Every time I see a team fail, it's "Oh, we don't have any DPS", because it's easier to keep that on check thanks to a parser.

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That's a pug that isnt reaching the dps check. If you need 4k and you only have 3.5k then you dont have the dps to do it. In a raid group 9/10 times people first try to help the person having an issue before replacing them. It's easier to help someone get better than it is to find someone who already knows how to play.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Interesting question. No, I'm not sure of it, but it's actually another problem. Let's say that a DPS check requires 4000 overall DPS. Let's say one DPS does 1000 and manage to do all mechanics. Let's say another DPS does 1500 but screw severals times on that phase. According to you, which one will be kicked ? The one who do enough and not screwing mechanics or the one wo do more than enough but fail the rest.

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In the scenario you posed, neither of the two candidates would be immediately up for "kicking" and this train of thought feels more of a loaded question than naught. With that being said, the 1K DPS would be at no risk because he's meeting the requirements necessary to complete the fight and consistently doing the mechanics. However, the higher DPS is at risk because if s/he proves that they are incapable of consistently completing the desired mechanics and would be holding the group back overall through progression if they show they cannot learn how to do the fight properly.

The performance of a DPS (or any role for that matter) is the sum of their ability to perform their role and deal with the fight mechanics. While that ability to perform one's role is transparent in the case of tanks and healers, in the case of DPS that transparency doesn't exist due to a lack of parser DPS measuring tool (really should be called this more than naught since there are some pretty key differences between the two).

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

The performance of a DPS (or any role for that matter) is the sum of their ability to perform their role and deal with the fight mechanics. While that ability to perform one's role is transparent in the case of tanks and healers, in the case of DPS that transparency doesn't exist due to a lack of parser.

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When they tried to make is less transparent and put the onus more on the DPS it failed miserably due to the large majority of dps who dont know how to optimize anything due to the lack of a parser. It's also funny to me the people who emphasize mechanics when it comes to the lack of DPS, if they knew anything they would know in order to get higher DPS in this game you have to perform the mechanics perfectly.

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Originally Posted by Seraphix2407

Even if 1k dps is done and group manage to kill it, doesn't mean he did enough of his own weight.

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No, he did enough. But, yes, maybe he didn't do his best. The problem is that enough is enough. And since goals are actually based on best players, everyone wants the absolute best, even when it's way over enough. Just look at the old "PLD sucks" topic...PLD did enough to beat savage, yet people pushed it out because WAR or DRK did better.

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Originally Posted by Seraphix2407

Good example, you join a ravana group back in the days when ilvl was lower, ever dps be pulling 1k plus while one does 550? Is that acceptable?

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No, it's not. But this community is way past such a trivial case. Even back in 2.0, people requested relics to invite you to Titan Hard mode. When the Novus was created, having anything besides full Det/Crit was considered garbage. And I remembered people posting that full Det/Crit and Det/Crit/Accu (to avoid rank IV materias) ended in less than 5% gap in DPS.

The problem is that the more you give players means to judge others, the harsher they will become.

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Originally Posted by Asmodai

if they knew anything they would know in order to get higher DPS in this game you have to perform the mechanics perfectly.

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Did you miss the part where BLM are encouraged to stay in AoE to not lose any second out of Ley Lines ?

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

The performance of a DPS (or any role for that matter) is the sum of their ability to perform their role and deal with the fight mechanics. While that ability to perform one's role is transparent in the case of tanks and healers, in the case of DPS that transparency doesn't exist due to a lack of parser DPS measuring tool (really should be called this more than naught since there are some pretty key differences between the two).

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You forgot to mention how tanks are healers would also need a parser to do the most DPS they can...and you also forgot that we have Stone, Sky, and Sea, which gives a precise objective in the DPS requirement without showing any actual number. Who could have thought ?

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Originally Posted by Asmodai

When they tried to make is less transparent and put the onus more on the DPS it failed miserably due to the large majority of dps who dont know how to optimize anything due to the lack of a parser. It's also funny to me the people who emphasize mechanics when it comes to the lack of DPS, if they knew anything they would know in order to get higher DPS in this game you have to perform the mechanics perfectly.

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Problem I also noticed, compare to old alex and new, the old one didn't have as much mechanics vs the new ones. And many people struggle to follow mechanics while maintain their dps. How can they improve and know they doing well or not? Doing sky sea stone? Hell no. If the fight had no mechanics you be safe, but since it does.. good luck finding out. :P

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

No, he did enough. But, yes, maybe he didn't do his best. The problem is that, for most content, enough is enough. And since goals are actually based on best players, everyone wants the absolute best, even when it's way over enough.
EDITING

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And you just prove its social accepted to have 1 guy 500 dps behind the other. Of course, you are right, when you down it as a group and it's fine it still shouldn't be accepted hes way lower than he should be. If it was 100-150 ish behind then he could def improve since theres mostlikely something he/she missed out doing or wrong times of cooldowns, b4b, IR etc. However why would people and I KNOW for certain if many if they had access to parsers they would look at this guy and say, hey hes far behind on his dps. I know this is what anti parser people talk about, but keep in mind, why should 3 dps do 100% of their job while one does only 50%. This is group not some one gets carried. If you want to be carried buy a run from some one, because you are leeching of people and you honestly think it's fine to leech? I don't.

Another example let's say we talk about the same people but we are in raid 1 out of 4, so on raid 2 their dps requirement is higher, you know very well that person has to pull his weight even higher to manage to beat the content. And that's where the problems also comes in,just because you can do 1 requirement of the dps check in the lower tier floor, doesn't mean you can handle the next, let's say being higher in mechanics and dps wise.

But yes I agree as long it can be done why not, but keep in mind the higher tier fights, lets say next floor in raids the dps has to be higher obviously. If it can be done with lower dps why not? It works as you say, however when you raid you have to expect higher ceiling in fight. And if dps doesn't improve, well yeah K.O :p

If devs know that the parsers would lead to harrassment increase, and we all know harrassment hurts player retention, why would they add such.