Who is gonna raid now with the iLvl 110 gear handed to people??

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

So your saying raiding ISN'T the hardest content? Seems a lot of people are having trouble killing them but I haven't heard anyone complaining about being able to kill Brayflox Hard Mode.

Uhh.. The same way 99% people wouldn't do anything? If they stop paying you at work are you going to keep showing up? Or maybe a better comparison. If you learn the guy who mows your neighbors lawn in 30 minutes once a month is making more money than you are for working 40 hours a week. Are you going to keep working where your working? Or are you going to go mow your neighbors lawn for 30 minutes once a month?

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Maybe your problem is that you see it as work, instead of seeing it for what it is; a game. Why do you want them to give you enough incentive to persuade you to do something you don't enjoy, rather than just doing something you actually enjoy?

Also, raiding isn't that hard by itself. Finding 7 people who have the appropriate classes and whose schedule fits your own, 7 people who're actually reliable enough to show up on time, good enough players to do their part of the job right - that's more difficult than the raid itself.

You could be doing everything 100% right and perfectly, and the raid may still fail because other people mess up. That doesn't mean it's more difficult, though, it just means it's more frustrating.

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

And all the people demanding they should have access to the same tier of gear as raiders are doing what exactly?

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I don't think I've actually seen many people "demanding" they need to have access to the same gear - merely happy that SE provided them with one. I have, however, seen a lot of raiders "Demanding" that the other people's i110 gear be taken away. It's like the toddler whose toy breaks, so he demands his brother's toy be broken, too.

I've been raiding for a long time, I've met a lot of different kinds of people. Generally, the only people who care about how "accessible" gear is are the ones who are only raiding for the purpose of appearing "teh best' and to stroke their epeen. The raiders who are actually doing it for their own sake and sense of progression usually don't give a shit, because that's all that matters to them - their own sense of progression.

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Originally Posted by Makado

Gear in MMORPG in my opinion is a mark of what you have achieved and your level of skill. But in 14 the line gets easily blurred which is unfortunate.

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What are you talking about? Playing 40 questions when you invite someone to a group is much more fun.

/shout LFM for Titan HM for my alt's relic

"Hey I'm a ilvl 108 blm can I join"

Normal MMO response: Hell yes you can. /whisper FC_Member dude some ilvl 108 blm is going to help this will be cake!

FFXIV MMO response:

1. Have you beaten Titan HM?
2. Can you dodge landslides
3. Do you know that you shouldn't spam Fire 3?
4. Have you ever raided in a real MMO?
5. Have you beaten Turn 2 enrage method?
6. Can you beat Turn 3 trash?
7. Do you know what game your playing right now?


Since theres about a 90% chance that despite what any ingrained MMO logic would tell you about level of gear being somewhat representative of skill level... The guy likely couldn't manage the "if you get a red mark over your head run to the A mark behind the boss"

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Originally Posted by Riepah

Also, raiding isn't that hard by itself.

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In FFXIV? No but that is a long term issue that has been discussed for a while. But at the moment there is no point in addressing difficulty until the issue of relevance is addressed.

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Originally Posted by Eissels

I don't think I've actually seen many people "demanding" they need to have access to the same gear - merely happy that SE provided them with one.

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After 3 months of people complaining since 2.2 that "ilvl 110 gear shouldn't be locked behind SCoB"

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

In FFXIV? No but that is a long term issue that has been discussed for a while. But at the moment there is no point in addressing difficulty until the issue of relevance is addressed.

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Well, here we go. Since you asked for clarification, yes, we're talking about FFXIV here. What raiding is like in other games or how well rewarded it is there is hardly relevant. Games don't all have to be the same, do they?

You're making it sound like the difficulty of raids doesn't matter, unless they're the only way to attain pretty much the "best" loot?

Honestly, people who enjoy raiding should raid, and people who don't enjoy shouldn't - raids shouldn't have a massive carrot to lure people who won't enjoy the content to do it anyway.

It's not like raiding will be very enjoyable for the actually enthusiastic either, if a part of their group is only there for the carrot.

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

snip

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Also, I wonder what MMOs you've been playing, where gear was a clear indicator of skill. I can't even count the times I've seen someone in full heroic botch the simplest of mechanics, or pull terribad low DPS.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

Well, here we go. Since you asked for clarification, yes, we're talking about FFXIV here. What raiding is like in other games or how well rewarded it is there is hardly relevant. Games don't all have to be the same, do they?

You're making it sound like the difficulty of raids doesn't matter, unless they're the only way to attain pretty much the "best" loot?

Honestly, people who enjoy raiding should raid, and people who don't enjoy shouldn't - raids shouldn't have a massive carrot to lure people who won't enjoy the content to do it anyway.

It's not like raiding will be very enjoyable for the actually enthusiastic either, if a part of their group is only there for the carrot.

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Since you need me to clarify apparently.

The ease of FFXIV 2.0 raids (and the game in general) have been discussed since launch. But right now there is no point in discussing ways to make them actually challenging when there is no point to do them no matter what difficulty level they are set at.

And since you ask? No they don't all have to be the same. The problem is the entitled generation trying to turn every single MMO into a solo player loot pinata.

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Originally Posted by Eissels

Also, I wonder what MMOs you've been playing, where gear was a clear indicator of skill. I can't even count the times I've seen someone in full heroic botch the simplest of mechanics, or pull terribad low DPS.

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The fact your referencing the game that made pandering the the lowest common denominator mainstream speaks volumes.

I can attest to this. I finally got past t5 and I was to happy to finally try t6-t9. Made a pf recruitment thingy and I had a few people join my party only to troll me and say that coil is now useless and that no-one will do it because hunts are a faster way to get i110 gear. Tried again after the trolls and then I even went to shout in all major cities and no-one would join me. A few people told me the same thing that the damn trolls told me. So what am I to do now :/ as this is really frustrating.

Yes that is a good illustration Zarzak. You would expect people with the highest item level to be good players, but now it can be achieved sitting in a hunt party for a few nights for a week. No playing involved except running through a zone and whacking a stationary mob a few times. So now item level means nothing.

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Originally Posted by Makado

Yes that is a good illustration Zarzak. You would expect people with the highest item level to be good players, but now it can be achieved sitting in a hunt party for a few nights for a week. No playing involved except running through a zone and whacking a stationary mob a few times. So now item level means nothing.

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personally swapping to scholar and hitting aero (or energy drain) then spamming succor seems to be quite effective. Esp when the S rank in Mor Dhona spawned and most of the dps died because it has a reflect or something.

End game raids are a joke. A once a week lockout, even if the loot you would want didn't drop is a sad excuse to call something a raid.

The OP complains about people in 'hunt' gear as if its being given out.

Reality check time: collecting the soldiery tomes (375 to 825 for the weathered part), then killing enough hunt mobs (500 to 750 allied notes for the 2 to 3 books) is far more work then some rng drop table with a rng lot mechanic. The most difficult part about SCoB is finding 7 other people who wont suck it up and cause hours of wipes.

None of the gear in this game really demonstrates player skill. You would need a solo content system where its just you versus the game. Something that tests your mastery of the job, and ability to get the win when you cant be carried or pay for the run.