Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

I was like this til half way through, then I thought I would be set free and im known as a WL sympathizer but after the last 2 areas and the amount of decision making, bossing about, screen time and just literal WL overload I want her as our next trial, seriously SE, let us kill her or at least humiliate her, I was so heart broken for erenville and krile after area 5...

It's just... i dont want to see anymore of her.

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This was better character development than anything seen in Dawntrail.

(Just a friendly rib, no offense meant.)

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Originally Posted by Amh_Wilzuun

I didn’t move any goalpost or handwave anything, I was just expanding on a side point. People did call wind Waker trash even after it came out because they weren’t able to look past the art style. There wasn’t this magical come to Jesus moment where everyone did a 180 on the game the day it came out. It took years for that negative sentiment to dissipate to where WW is now considered a Zelda classic

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You're drawing a false parallel. Reviewers and gamers alike who played Wind Waker lauded the game. It had incredibly high review scores and those who played it generally said favorably things about the game.

Sure, those who were turned off by the art style didn't want to even play the game so they could call it whatever they want (trash or otherwise); and yes over time people who may have skipped the original launch have gone back and enjoyed the game for what it is; but that's not what is happening here.

You don't have people saying "Yuck! Look at these elements of Dawntrail! I don't want to play it!", you have people who bought the game, played through it and did not care for it.

It's not as though years from now the people who didn't enjoy it will look back and say "boy I sure was wrong about DT, it had a really great story line at launch".

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

I'm about halfway through the story and not really seeing the extreme hate people are having for the character. If I really wanted to be picky i'd say it would've been nice to actually have some training scenes with WoL and Wuk (ff7 flashback gym squats etc :P)

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I went into DT really liking Wuk Lamat. I could see her being an interesting side character. I defended her character in discussions with friends.

I left the MSQ wishing she get the fxxk away from me and never show her face again.

So, I completed the final trial today, and I had the most unique experience I have ever had in this game. The cutscene had everyone - complete randoms i've never met, mind - groaning at the VAing and what was happening. At the end of the trial, only one person left. The rest of us 7 just stood there in genuine shock for ten minutes, trying to process what just happened and discussing how terrible it was. I have never seen practically an entire group of total randoms sticking around after a trial with no loot PURELY to try to verbalize just how much they disliked what they saw.

If that doesn't speak volumes of just how terribly Wuk was handled, nothing does. If you know, you know.

I finally finished MSQ last night, and oh boy... I can't believe how bad the whole story is in this expansion. This is the first time it has taken me a while to even get through the story, while usually I get hooked from the start, yet here I spent the whole early access just going back to my island sanctuary after getting through a bit of the story and seeing how bad it was even when it just started. The majority of the expansion is just Wuk this, Wuk that, speak to Wuk Lamat yet again. There's plenty of different things that could've been good if they were expanded and had more time spent on, yet it's all resolved in the span of a few minutes, and then we are immediately back to Wuk Lamat and her nonsense.

We should've spent more time with Krile and Erenville. I'm glad they finally got something for themselves in the last area, but I wish they had more time than they did. Especially Erenville, he got the worst out of all. Just put before the fact that his mom is in fact actually long dead, forced to just erase her here and now after entertaining her last shenanigans while being treated distantly and dismissively by everyone around him, including said mother? I honestly have no words to describe my disappointment, and the last trial was so infuriating to top it off. I had so much fun finally getting to do something without Wuk Lamat, especially considering the majority of people did the trial for the first time too, so we had to figure out stuff as we went, dying a few times, and then our efforts just got wuk'd because suddenly she appears and finishes the fight? Not even going to talk about the horrendous English voice acting in that entire scene.

Way too much of the story has been spent on Wuk Lamat and too little on other characters. We should've been done with her when she got through the rite of succession. The writing as a whole is strange compared to what we've had before, with the pacing being all over the place and revolving purely around a single character that seems to not offer much other than endless preaching about friendship, peace, and happiness. It got old very fast and overstayed its welcome. I'm honestly surprised I even managed to get through this whole thing without just straight up skipping cutscenes like some ended up doing.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

I guess none of this bothered me because this is the way every FFXI expansion was written. So it felt more like a throwback than anything.

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How to tell me you never read or played the FFXI stories without telling me you never read or played the FFXI stories (or maybe weren't paying attention at all because of no voice acting).

Each story in FFXI is written in a way that makes the adventurer very important, without pedestaling them. At least in each of their beginnings. By the end of each and every storyline in FFXI, the adventurer's heroism is acknowledged, and in about half of the storylines, they are pedestaled as a big damn hero.

They are least acknowledged within Rise of The Zilart, and that was the first expansion, and its storytelling is mostly done at the very beginning and the very end of its run. The NPC companions can't beat Kamlanaut, Ealdnarche, nor the Ark Angels without the Adventurer. Though there's no real NPC fight integration either.

In Chains of Promathia, Prishe is a super important character and gets a lot of screen time, but CoP revolves around the adventurer and an ensemble cast. The adventurer winds up being the only other person aside from Prishe and Selh'teus who can resist Promathia's psychic influence to rejoin with his being, thereby allowing them to fight him. The adventurer is so important to the plot in CoP, that towards the end, some of the cast gets the idea that if the adventurer is killed, then the problems will resolve after the Lights of the Mothercrystals return with his soul to Al'taieu's crystal.

In Treasures of Aht Urhgan, the Adventurer rises through the mercenary ranks and through their exploits, becames entangled with the empress herself, becoming her personal bodyguard, and being so beloved by her, that she claims them as her, "Eternal Mercenary." The adventurerer also plays double agent for the Middle Lands nations, and performs some small feats of espionage. In the end, they are the one who puts down Alexander, and stops the Grand Vizier's ambition. This is undercut by the comedic genius of the mercenary company leader still treating the adventurer like a simple lacky, though if you pay attention, this is little just tsundere merc leader refusing to acknowledge open affection.

In Wings of the Goddess the Adventurer is revealed to come from a timeline chosen by the Goddess to be the right and proper ending to the Crystal War, whereas in the natural timeline, the Allied Forces lose. The Adventurer, along with Lilisette, are the Wings of the Goddess, and when Lilisette is undone by temporal paradox and Atomos from Lilith's schemes, the adventurer is all that can bring her back and stop Lilith.

In Seekers of Adoulin, the Adventurer has gone to the Sacred City of Adoulin on the wild and untamed and still mostly unexplored continent of Ulbuka, where the general population are forbidden from leaving the city. They become entangled with the Princess of Adoulin, Arciela, and become her right hand man and go-to guy, earning a place at the leadership council between the twelve orders of Adoulin. The spirit of the forest speaks to and through them, and such high trust in this stranger becomes a point of contention in this politically charged expansion. The Adventurer goes on to slay the Naakuals and plumb the depths of The Serpentine Labyrinth of Ra'Kaznar. They rescue Arciela several times, and are tasked with one impossible feat after the next, while Arciela researches crucial lore relating to the special dagger left to her by King August. Together they put an end to Hades, something not even the Founder King was able to do, though he does appear in spirit...

Rhapsodies of Vana'diel is an attempted coiling together of all these disparate storylines, and by the end it is a 14 year love letter from the development team to the veterans of FFXI, to the adventurer. In this expansion the adventurer becomes a god of light temporarily, in order to try and stop The Cloud of Darkness.

Beyond that is The Voracious Resurgence, which attempts to have you come in contact with every side character that Rhapsodies and the other storylines did not/barely did. During the course of this storyline, the Adventurer becomes the only other mortal besides the Gloom Phantom, to be able to wield Prime Weapons, thus allowing them fight and kill Chaos alongside the god Odin.

And back, even in the base original game of FFXI, when it was just The Shadowlord and The Beastmen, the Adventurer rises through the ranks of their chosen nation, eventually teaming up with adventurers from other nations, and together with a mere five other adventurers, they stop The Shadowlord after his brief resurrection, earning them hero status, acknowledged on a national level.

It's not the same at all. It's not even close to being the same.

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Originally Posted by Swad

Cannot imagine the damage that these writers will do to XI with the alliance raids. Fickblix had a better story then Wuk.

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They're gonna remove every aspect of why people like Shantotto and make her extremely annoying.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

The most brutal takedown known to man

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https://i.imgur.com/Op597wP.png

It didn't bother me not to be the main character but I guess some people really didn't like that.

Rewatching a few cutscenes from DT I think I understand why they did this: they wanted to really elevate the production value of the cutscenes and were really reaching the limits of having a silent protagonist, so they made the gamble of creating wuk lamat as a stand in for the player.
Apparently people prefer everyone continuously singing the WoL's praise and the WoL nodding furiously in response. On top of that there's the other huge problem of DT: two stories crammed into one expansion because they didn't anticipate and setup the story in the post msq patchs of the second to last expansion like they usually do.

We'll see how they manage to turn things around in the post patch. There's many dangling threads that could lead to interesting stories.

The whole "you just want everyone to suck WoL's dick all the time" has been brought up and dismantled so many times it's getting really tiresome.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

The whole "you just want everyone to suck WoL's dick all the time" has been brought up and dismantled so many times it's getting really tiresome.

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Are we reading the same thread? People continuously complain that the WoL isn't front and center. And people hilariously complaint that wuk lamat have "everything handed to her" by the writers when it was also how the wol was always written. People are basically complaining that wuk lamat is a mary sue when the wol themselves always was an even bigger one. The hypocrisy is hilarious and also a bit sad.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

The whole "you just want everyone to suck WoL's dick all the time" has been brought up and dismantled so many times it's getting really tiresome.

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Dawntrail is basically what would happen if you took Harry Potter, read all 6 books, and the 7th book's main character was Luna Lovegood. And SHE defeated Voldemort instead of Harry.

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Originally Posted by Taliriah

Are we reading the same thread? People continuously complain that the WoL isn't front and center. And people hilariously complaint that wuk lamat have "everything handed to her" by the writers when it was also how the wol was always written. People are basically complaining that wuk lamat is a mary sue when the wol themselves always was an even bigger one. The hypocrisy is hilarious and also a bit sad.

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Then improve your reading comprehension.

EDIT: Or at least quote the specific posts you are arguing against, instead of strawmanning all criticism.

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Originally Posted by Taliriah

Are we reading the same thread? People continuously complain that the WoL isn't front and center. And people hilariously complaint that wuk lamat have "everything handed to her" by the writers when it was also how the wol was always written. People are basically complaining that wuk lamat is a mary sue when the wol themselves always was an even bigger one. The hypocrisy is hilarious and also a bit sad.

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While the WoL is absolutely a bit of a Mary Sue, you're being purposefully dismissive of the fact that the WoL actually fails. Several times, infact. WoL falls hook, line and sinker for the Sultana plot. They fail to save Iceheart or Haurchefant (even if that plotpoint is overused). They get their asses kicked by Zenos. They fail to actually contain the light in SHB and invoke Emet Selch's Ire. I'd say the one where there really is an unmitigated triumph from the WoL without any real losses was Endwalker, which felt a bit weird.

The reason I bring that up, is because Wuk NEVER fails. Nothing that happens to her has any long-standing consequences whatsoever. There is no tension when she is on screen, and it is not handwaved away by "Well, it's the PC in a MMO, they CAN'T die", which is a very convenient thing to forget when discussing this. Also, re-read the thread and you'll see that there are plenty of people happy to be sidelined and serve as a mentor or whatever, so, once more, you're being very desingenuous in your point - or you just haven't read the thread properly.

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Originally Posted by Taliriah

It didn't bother me not to be the main character but I guess some people really didn't like that.

Rewatching a few cutscenes from DT I think I understand why they did this: they wanted to really elevate the production value of the cutscenes and were really reaching the limits of having a silent protagonist, so they made the gamble of creating wuk lamat as a stand in for the player.
Apparently people prefer everyone continuously singing the WoL's praise and the WoL nodding furiously in response. On top of that there's the other huge problem of DT: two stories crammed into one expansion because they didn't anticipate and setup the story in the post msq patchs of the second to last expansion like they usually do.

We'll see how they manage to turn things around in the post patch. There's many dangling threads that could lead to interesting stories.

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I've yet to see a single one of these mythical "people want to be the main character" posts.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

I've yet to see a single one of these mythical "people want to be the main character" posts.

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In Stormblood, I was made to follow Lyse and Hien.

Lyse I didn't like from the start, didn't care for Yda or her "big reveal".

Hien, however, was a delight to see. He was a good character with a crazy idea that made you think he could actually make it work.

I enjoyed being a sidekick to a good character. I uttered the loudest "YES!" when I saw Lyse was leaving the scions.

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Originally Posted by SwadTheFrog

While the WoL is absolutely a bit of a Mary Sue, you're being purposefully dismissive of the fact that the WoL actually fails. Several times, infact. WoL falls hook, line and sinker for the Sultana plot. They fail to save Iceheart or Haurchefant (even if that plotpoint is overused). They get their asses kicked by Zenos. They fail to actually contain the light in SHB and invoke Emet Selch's Ire. I'd say the one where there really is an unmitigated triumph from the WoL without any real losses was Endwalker, which felt a bit weird.

The reason I bring that up, is because Wuk NEVER fails. Nothing that happens to her has any long-standing consequences whatsoever. There is no tension when she is on screen, and it is not handwaved away by "Well, it's the PC in a MMO, they CAN'T die", which is a very convenient thing to forget when discussing this. Also, re-read the thread and you'll see that there are plenty of people happy to be sidelined and serve as a mentor or whatever, so, once more, you're being very desingenuous in your point - or you just haven't read the thread properly.

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For those of us who played in 1.0 we the WoL FAILED to stop Dalamud's fall and the Calamity...

The WoL has failed tons of times. First time you fight Zenos you lose. Second time it is just a draw. Last time in stormblood you are actually about to lose when the dimensional teleport pulls you out. You fall for the syndicates scam and get framed for murdering Nanomo. You fail to save Hauchefaunt. The first time you go to Ala Mhigo with Lyse you are rejected and forced to leave. In shadowbringers you are saved by the Exarch the first time Ranjit shows up. You fail to do enough to defeat an Ascian on your own and it results in Moonbryda having to sacrifice herself. God knows how many npcs I can't remember died because you "arrived too late". Gaia has to break you free from the ice when you are fighting Eikon Ryne (funny no one minded that one I wonder why?) Also yeah, as Rannie says above... the WoL fails to stop Garlemald's plot in 1.0 which ultimately forces Louisiox to sacrifice his own life to stop Bahamut.

I can do this all day. The character has a mountain of trials and tribulations they have dealt with and it has not always been great. They are very much not a mary sue.

Of course Wuk Lamat gets spit on one time by an alpaca, then she gets kidnapped once. After that she... ... ... is uber successful at everything she does for the rest of the expansion, wins the succession, and is worshiped by everyone. She even gets credit for everything the WoL does, not that they do much in Dawntrail. The only characters who die that mean anything to her all either died of old age, she was involved in killing them (zarool ja), or they lose a duel they demand be one on one cause we all know if Wuk Lamat had been allowed to help it would have been a walk over win.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...1276fecb64020&

Please kill Wuk off-screen with a humiliating death in Post-Dawntrail patches. It will totally make my day

My first post in the forums, since the FFXIV Reddit is like a toxic wasteland since you cannot said a anything that resemble a critique about the game, I haven't finished the MSQ yet, but so far the story has been really weak in the sense of how nonsensical the characters interact? Like I know how the anime trope goes in the tournament arc, the warrior that everyone likes (who is not the real villain btw) (Zoraal), the smart one (Koana), the "bad guy" (Bakool) who would have some redemption and the underdog (Wuk Lamat).

And so far, Lamat has been the most plain protagonist so far and the whole Rite of Succession doesn't make sense? And what i mean by this is how the characters interact? For example we know that everyone loves Zoraal for being a mighty warrior, but during the Alpaca """challenge""" Zoraal just intimidate the npc so he skips the """challenge""" and the goes to get the golden alpaca, meanwhile Lamat spend time talking with the npcs and whatnot which it would be a nice plot point just to show that even Lamat lacks of the "military expertise" that her brother has, she connects with the people and thats what matters for a leader? But no

Same thing happens with Koana, we are told at the begining that Koana embrace the progress and yadda yadda but when you go and the crop thing with the vanu vanu and Lamat goes and do the ritual to heal the crops, Koana does the same thing with Alchemy I kinda lost it, mostly because Alphinaud suddenly knows what Koana did but 5 min before didn't know wtf is happening and he doesn't even bring the "aether" flow, hello? Krile? Baldesion studies? Nobody knew until Koana did his thing, and secondly Koana tells Lamat that "She needs to embrace the progress" and i was expecting her go "But brother we need to keep our traditions and no rely much on foreigner stuff" you know? Stuff like that, but NO! She goes "Duh, sugoi nii-chan" and everything is solved.

And i know i'm not even half done, but man the scenario so far is really lackluster

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Originally Posted by Taliriah

Are we reading the same thread? People continuously complain that the WoL isn't front and center. And people hilariously complaint that wuk lamat have "everything handed to her" by the writers when it was also how the wol was always written. People are basically complaining that wuk lamat is a mary sue when the wol themselves always was an even bigger one. The hypocrisy is hilarious and also a bit sad.

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People complain that we are invisible not that we are not centerstage.
We are just the cameraman for Wuk Lamat.
People bring up Stormblood all the time as an example were we still had something to do.
Our personal beef with Zenos for example.

This is an mmorpg. The player character should have important scenes for themself.
There is no hypocrisy. There are people telling why they are dissapointed in different threads.
I advice you to read the japanese forum. They say the same thing as the players here.

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Originally Posted by HealerGuy

Wuk Lamat is as awesome character. Learns from her failures and she's got a cute personality! Love me some Wuk Lamat!!

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yea bro she got kidnapped that one time and uh, got spit on by a llama
totally enough "learning from failure" for her to be to solo bakool jaja

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Originally Posted by KurenXIV

My absolute favorite moment was post credits roll.

I was so beyond relieved to finally be done with the worst story I've played in any game in recent memory (not just XIV).

Our character retires to their inn room and I was SO HAPPY that we were looking at a map of the world. My mind raced as to where we would go next, what we would see . . . leaving behind this land as if it was a bad dream . . .

Then there's a knock at the door.

HEY! IT'S WUK LAMAT. HEY! REMEMBER WUK! REMEMBER HOW YOU CAN NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER BE RID OF HER!? WELL HERE SHE IS!

I seriously thought it would have been someone else . . . anyone else but her . . . but there she was.

Honestly if we ended her then and there and just leave it woulda made this story a 20 out of 10 but alas she lives to ruin more stories in the future.

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i pray patch content has us fly away to mercydia or something and wuk lamat gets chained to a post, to stay behind for once

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Originally Posted by EvanescentRayne

Unfortunately, I have a feeling that the entire reason why...

Koana was made into Dawnservant alongside WL, despite the fact he's better at the job and actually fills the role when Tural needs him unlike WL

...is because he'll be holding down the fort while WL stays glued to our hip until...whenever the writers finally sideline her.

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I might start skipping cutscenes for the first time if this happens unironically

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Originally Posted by SwadTheFrog

… and it is not handwaved away by "Well, it's the PC in a MMO, they CAN'T die", which is a very convenient thing to forget when discussing this.

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It would go down like a sack of bricks, but there is a way the PC could be killed and it not really matter. We have done the Zenos bodyhopping thing in the last expansion, so it should be possible to be killed and just “yeah nah” it off. I don’t trust them to do it well or not overuse it if it does work, but it might be interesting. If there is a cloning facility in solution 9, that would be a possible place to get a guilt-free replacement body too.

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

People complain that we are invisible not that we are not centerstage.
We are just the cameraman for Wuk Lamat.
People bring up Stormblood all the time as an example were we still had something to do.
Our personal beef with Zenos for example.

This is an mmorpg. The player character should have important scenes for themself.
There is no hypocrisy. There are people telling why they are dissapointed in different threads.
I advice you to read the japanese forum. They say the same thing as the players here.

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THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING! I just wanted my WoL to be a part of the story! To atleast have an importance in it! In HW and StB im fine with Alphi+Estinien and Lyse to be the MC because we are still a part of the story! We're still in the narrative and we have importance! In DT if I replace my WoL with a mannequin it wouldnt matter because our WoLs are literal fly on the wall in DT. The scions didnt have any character dev, our wol didnt, ONLY WUK LAMAT GETS THE SCREEN AND SHE DIDNT EVEN GROW WITH ALL THE SCREENTIME SHE GOT. What a waste.

The more I read the Japanese forum on the story the more hopeful I am that Square changes course.

Almost all post are criticism regarding Wuk Lamat overshadowing anything (there are some funny anecdotes as well like comparing her to your boss‘s daughter you have to babysits on your summer vacation).
Of course there are also a few stupid takes like disliking Wuk Lamat because of her appearance.

All those posts have liked in the 80s or more. Those who are positive are at around 7.

It’s really interesting how the different languages are more or less of the same mind. Story itself not bad to very good but many saying that she was too overbearing as a character.

The Japanese thread is also far bigger and fills faster then in the past.

Ahh, quality time with Erenville now that the succession is over. Im actually smiling and excited.

Surely nothing will go wrong.

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

The more I read the Japanese forum on the story the more hopeful I am that Square changes course.

Almost all post are criticism regarding Wuk Lamat overshadowing anything (there are some funny anecdotes as well like comparing her to your boss‘s daughter you have to babysits on your summer vacation).
Of course there are also a few stupid takes like disliking Wuk Lamat because of her appearance.

All those posts have liked in the 80s or more. Those who are positive are at around 7.

It’s really interesting how the different languages are more or less of the same mind. Story itself not bad to very good but many saying that she was too overbearing as a character.

The Japanese thread is also far bigger and fills faster then in the past.

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But the story IS also very bad. Wuk Lamat is a big issue, everything said here is also true and I'm glad to hear the JP forums share the same opinion on her because there's more chance they will do something about it, but honestly, for me the best put criticism and the one that nailed it better was THIS THREAD, if you haven't seen it yet. It explains WHY Wuk Lamat feels like a problem, as well as everyone else, and during the whole thread people also point out other problems in characters and story. The more I read it, the worse it gets.
It's sad to think that they writers seem to don't know BASIC CHARACTER WRITING. I think the one thing that nails it here is that "everyone else also has the problems of Wuk Lamat". The thing with Wuk is that we're forced to babysit - no, not even that, because I'm not doing anything - to just follow her around quietly during the ENTIRE story.

The one worry I have is they just latch on the "no one likes Wuk Lamat" and think just removing her from the story will solve the problem. It won't.

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Originally Posted by Mecia

Ahh, quality time with Erenville now that the succession is over. Im actually smiling and excited.

Surely nothing will go wrong.

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https://i.redd.it/72y47uv09w3d1.jpeg

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Originally Posted by chizLemons

But the story IS also very bad. Wuk Lamat is a big issue, everything said here is also true and I'm glad to hear the JP forums share the same opinion on her because there's more chance they will do something about it, but honestly, for me the best put criticism and the one that nailed it better was THIS THREAD, if you haven't seen it yet. It explains WHY Wuk Lamat feels like a problem, as well as everyone else, and during the whole thread people also point out other problems in characters and story. The more I read it, the worse it gets.
It's sad to think that they writers seem to don't know BASIC CHARACTER WRITING. I think the one thing that nails it here is that "everyone else also has the problems of Wuk Lamat". The thing with Wuk is that we're forced to babysit - no, not even that, because I'm not doing anything - to just follow her around quietly during the ENTIRE story.

The one worry I have is they just latch on the "no one likes Wuk Lamat" and think just removing her from the story will solve the problem. It won't.

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I know that thread. I commented in it.

For all my criticism on all the plotholes and bad writing I don‘t think the story is bad though. Not bad does not mean good. It means neutral about it and whatever.

That sentence in my post was also just a reflection of the overall feedback I have read and most of that was that the story is underwhelming to good.

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

I know that thread. I commented in it.

For all my criticism on all the plotholes and bad writing I don‘t think the story is bad though. Not bad does not mean good. It means neutral about it and whatever.

That sentence in my post was also just a reflection of the overall feedback I have read and most of that was that the story is underwhelming to good.

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I understood that, and I was also commenting about the reflection on the JP forums, not on you. Also just using the opportunity to bring attention to that in case other people didn't. I still think it's very bad, but maybe there should be another thread focusing on that aspect to go more in depth on it.
There's a few good IDEAS and concepts...but how it was done was very, very flawed. They can't seem to hold the themes together, the problems presented at the story a lot of times don't make sense, the solution doesn't either, and a lot of what was presented in the second part also breaks lore from past expansions if you think a little more about it, and opens the gate for a lot of issues in the future.

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

Almost all post are criticism regarding Wuk Lamat overshadowing anything (there are some funny anecdotes as well like comparing her to your boss‘s daughter you have to babysits on your summer vacation).

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This here is so wonderful and so accurate. Thanks for sharing it here (and of course the general mood too).

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Not sure why some ppl here feel like the side lining is bad when its been done before. Hildebrand has done a wonderful job at making u side character for his story. The shame of it is that wuk lamat voice, the writing, the lack of character breathing room is so bad it really over shadows what could have been a good character. Its really a shame cause its fun being a side character in Hildebrand story cause the story knows it can't take it self too serious. Even outside of all that the pacing, the story, and the overll narrative are really at times poorly done if you played other expansions and seen how poorly the copy and paste is.

Some posted about how there group sat there stun by wtf happened in phase 2 of final fight letting you know your not the only person.

A cool phase two could have been the boss charging up a .exe program to delete us and it goes off while showing our body outside of the terminal diming like zenos and erenville grabbing the azem crystal hearing a voice prompting him to make a wish on crystal for our safe return and lord be hold we come back. Or some other bs that could use dynamis as a fun tool. Yet having the fight soley be a powerpuff girl ending. So once again the day is saved thanks to Wuk lamat was not a good way to undermind your efforts. Im not saying wuk couldnt have been there. Hell been cool to have the others join along side you and co as we all go in beating her.

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Originally Posted by RabendaShin

https://i.redd.it/72y47uv09w3d1.jpeg

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Unironically one of the best ways to sum up much of the disdain about her.

I think what finally killed the MSQ for me is when Koana told us Wookie Doormat wanted us to stay with her while she ruled. I felt physically ill as soon as that voice line finished. I was begging for an option to say NO during the conversation after that with Wookie Doormat. I'm not her acquaintance, friend, colleague, hired muscle, mentor, or errand girl. I did what her dad asked me to do, now leave me the fuck alone.

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Originally Posted by Xendros

I think what finally killed the MSQ for me is when Koana told us Wookie Doormat wanted us to stay with her while she ruled. I felt physically ill as soon as that voice line finished. I was begging for an option to say NO during the conversation after that with Wookie Doormat. I'm not her acquaintance, friend, colleague, hired muscle, mentor, or errand girl. I did what her dad asked me to do, now leave me the fuck alone.

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I was actually VERY uncomfortable a little before that when she asked her to hold her hand because she was scared...uh, what? Excuse me? No, go away. I don't even know you. You barely ever asked about me as a person anyway, and I'm supposed to believe we're that close?! For how much time we were forced to spend with her, I don't feel like we got close AT ALL.
And then she also asks you to treat her like family? No, I refuse.

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Originally Posted by fioravictorine

Please kill Wuk off-screen with a humiliating death in Post-Dawntrail patches. It will totally make my day

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They did dirty Arenvald, so why not do Wuk Lamat dirty? I would love for them to kill her off screen.
Arenvald was one of the best NPCs poor guy.

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Originally Posted by chizLemons

I was actually VERY uncomfortable a little before that when she asked her to hold her hand because she was scared...uh, what? Excuse me? No, go away. I don't even know you. You barely ever asked about me as a person anyway, and I'm supposed to believe we're that close?! For how much time we were forced to spend with her, I don't feel like we got close AT ALL.
And then she also asks you to treat her like family? No, I refuse.

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I've been around aviation my entire life so I can empathize with people who are scared to fly. I deal with them constantly. Unfortunately, my real world experience clouded my judgement during that cutscene. I hated myself after the fact because I fell into the writer's trap and agreed to hold her hand.