How to Dragoon Per Second: A DPS Paradigm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ErzaScarlet77

anyone else absolutely hates the eso gloves?
theres a random huge red spikes on them and it clips EVERYTHING.

i had to glamour it back to asura glove and dye it dark blue (which looks very cool btw)

---

The set in general has a ton of clipping. High collars and long hair make me sad.

OK please don't laugh at me if its obvious.

After the advanced opener everything is on cooldown right. So when they start coming off cooldown do we pop them as soon as possible anywhere in the rotation or do we hold them?

I.e. Ir comes off cd do I pop it between CT and TT or do I wait for b4b to come off cd then use them in the same positions as the opener?

This includes jumps, pot and BL. It sounds very obvious I know, I just want to make sure I'm doing it right so I maximise my DPS .

Thanks

I'm pretty sure the cooldowns are popped whenever possible, unless waiting for 1 gcd will result in a better output.

For example, BFB goes off cooldown after you used True Thrust, waiting to use it after you use vorpal thrust will result in better output.
Best time to pop BFB is posted by Dervy in first page.

So far I only got PS and Jump timing down because it's very simple lol, 2 jump = 1 PS

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Barristanselmy

snip

---

Only a couple of things:

- B4B timings are on main page, and is timed/optimized to cover 2 Geirskoguls.
- Blood of the Dragon should be reused (and most likely lines up almost perfectly depending on latency) after the earliest Vorpal Blade/Disembowel you can do, unless you know there will be a phase shift soon (in which case, save it)
- Battle Litany can usually be used immediately off cooldown, though if you can coordinate with your static you might benefit more from waiting an optimal number of people are in the "burst" part of their rotation. Also make sure if you have multiple DRGs to coordinate who is using it on CD first.
- Pots should be used in conjunction with B4B (I think?)

Alright, here's me trying to double-weave oGCDs.

It's hard for me to do it, still not sure whether it's latency or whatnot, or maybe it's me >_>

Ichi's 30 Seconds into Adv. Dragoon Opener.

Things to note:
1. Did not use any kind of potions, in the real deal, I will, though.
2. Disembowel is clipped for a bit.
3. GK usage isn't as smooth as the one in Dervy's.
4. Battle Litany isn't in effect, despite the animation is already in motion.

I hope you guys can help me find the cause!

So what are normal DPS so far for Dragoons in A1S and A2S? My group beat A2S and I think I did around 1400 ( used no AoE besides holding GK for a couple seconds then blowing it off completely )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dervy

Uhmm like 0.015% difference between the two jobs on a Dummy.

At i195:

My Static Monk: 1330
My Dragoon: 1310

---

Conditions? i.e; party str buff, food, pot, etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greyfrost

Alright, here's me trying to double-weave oGCDs.

It's hard for me to do it, still not sure whether it's latency or whatnot, or maybe it's me >_>

Ichi's 30 Seconds into Adv. Dragoon Opener.

Things to note:
1. Did not use any kind of potions, in the real deal, I will, though.
2. Disembowel is clipped for a bit.
3. GK usage isn't as smooth as the one in Dervy's.
4. Battle Litany isn't in effect, despite the animation is already in motion.

I hope you guys can help me find the cause!

---

Yea that's weird how it showed animation for BL but didn't give you the buff or go on cd. What's your skill speed at out of curiosity? Def seems like a latency issue tho, especially with BL acting weird. But as for skill speed, it just seems like your gcd is going pretty fast, idk if you're at 2.39 it could be exasperating the latency issues

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scum

Conditions? i.e; party str buff, food, pot, etc.

---

No food, no pots, no party buff, no selenes, no ast no ninja, nothing. Just raw rotation.

Dervy when do you pop ir after the opener? I pop mine (the next time it's off cd) at CT is this the optimal place?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Barristanselmy

Dervy when do you pop it after the opener? I pop mine (the next time it's off cd) at CT is this the optimal place?

---

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3278797

There's also a chart in the OP, I assume it's still valid:

Quote:

---

In this chart, we can see all of the optimal places to use Blood for Blood. In order of highest PPS, you should use BFB before this skill:

1) Vorpal Thrust
2) Impulse Drive
3) Disembowel
4) Full Thrust
5) Chaos Thrust

---

Popping it before CT would be better, at least for me it usually comes off cd between CT-4th, so I hold it and pop between 4th-Phleb, which according to Dervy's math is the optimal place at that point in time

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Yea that's weird how it showed animation for BL but didn't give you the buff or go on cd. What's your skill speed at out of curiosity? Def seems like a latency issue tho, especially with BL acting weird

---

Skill Speed at 595, Recast is 2.41s.

Man, I'd hate it if it's really latency issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greyfrost

Alright, here's me trying to double-weave oGCDs.

It's hard for me to do it, still not sure whether it's latency or whatnot, or maybe it's me >_>

Ichi's 30 Seconds into Adv. Dragoon Opener.

Things to note:
1. Did not use any kind of potions, in the real deal, I will, though.
2. Disembowel is clipped for a bit.
3. GK usage isn't as smooth as the one in Dervy's.
4. Battle Litany isn't in effect, despite the animation is already in motion.

I hope you guys can help me find the cause!

---

Latency.

http://www.wowinterface.com/download...atencyFix.html

https://www.wtfast.com/

Hopefully this helps you.

Well, I'm already using wtfast, even in that recording, I guess it's a lost cause :(

Thanks for helping!

Check out the other link I sent. Leatrix Latency Fix. I swear by it. Whenever I do a fresh OS installation, its the first thing I do, haha.

Will do, Dervy! Thank you very much.

has anyone ever had problem of doing botd-> 3rd combo but then didnt get the 4th combo?

Yeah, tends to happen if I'm lagging. Generally it doesn't happen unless my internet is having a laugh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Are there any other sites like Ariyala? For some reason my work decided to block it as "Adult/mature content".

---

Remove the ffxiv before http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/ and that's probably why :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arson_king

So what are normal DPS so far for Dragoons in A1S and A2S? My group beat A2S and I think I did around 1400 ( used no AoE besides holding GK for a couple seconds then blowing it off completely )

---

A1 numbers vary quite a bit due to groups killing the boss before vs after the third jump, which makes about a 150 dps difference. A2 I personally pull 300-400 depending on how quickly I get out of the walker near the end, and I'm pretty sure putting the DRG in there is fairly common, so I expect similar results from others.

I have a question to all master dragoon out there.
What's the standard dummy DPS for i193.
I'm trying to get back to dragooning again after weeks of crafting addiction :p

Eso weapon with most alex NM gear and an eso waist and acc forgot which.

I'm hovering between 1190-1290 which seems a bit low to me. Because I've been hearing people hitting 1300 at the same gear level.

Honestly, those numbers seem fine. You could probably be a bit higher - 1300 is feasible at that gear level - but dummy parses only matter so much. In my times DFing Alex Normal, I've seen a few DRGs with better gear than me who'd essentially match me on Faust and then fall over 150 short on the Oppressor fight. Sure, the better your dummy parse the higher your burst, but none of that *really* matters when it comes right down to it if you can't adjust for mechanics. Don't put so much stock in what you're doing on a dummy, imo. Those parses vary wildly based on lucky/unlucky crit runs. My current gear (i198; Savage gloves/ears/ring, eso spear/wrist/ring/pants, Alex NM all the rest) can see me pushing 1400 if I get lucky crits or fall as low as 1250 (or worse) if my crit rate is abysmal (or if the crits come only on weaker skills).

That's just my opinion on dummy dps, though, others might feel differently.

tl;dr: you're doing just fine, but could do a bit better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JackFross

Honestly, those numbers seem fine. You could probably be a bit higher - 1300 is feasible at that gear level - but dummy parses only matter so much. In my times DFing Alex Normal, I've seen a few DRGs with better gear than me who'd essentially match me on Faust and then fall over 150 short on the Oppressor fight. Sure, the better your dummy parse the higher your burst, but none of that *really* matters when it comes right down to it if you can't adjust for mechanics. Don't put so much stock in what you're doing on a dummy, imo. Those parses vary wildly based on lucky/unlucky crit runs. My current gear (i198; Savage gloves/ears/ring, eso spear/wrist/ring/pants, Alex NM all the rest) can see me pushing 1400 if I get lucky crits or fall as low as 1250 (or worse) if my crit rate is abysmal (or if the crits come only on weaker skills).

That's just my opinion on dummy dps, though, others might feel differently.

tl;dr: you're doing just fine, but could do a bit better.

---

I know :D
I just needed a base line to see whether what I'm doing is right for that ilvl.

Ah~ C: Well I think it's possible to be hitting 1300. The only way I or anybody else could help figure out where you're lacking would be to see a detailed breakdown of the parse and what skills you use when. Saving your fourth GSK for your second B4B (and then hitting the fifth before it falls off!), for example, is actually a noticeable boost in such a short, bursty parse, and something not everyone thinks to do.

And Dervy, dunno if you'll see this, but I'm curious how you calculate out your "DPS" numbers in your set listing. I've been trying to make a spreadsheet to do it myself, but after a lot of tweaking I've gotten to 1513.795 for that first set. Tried tweaking it to make it more accurate (adding the Crit adjutment after calculating it all out), but it only made it go UP to 1516. D:

There's many, many things that could be inflating your DPS.

• Are you sure your model is using the proper rotation?
• Are you using the correct formulas?
• Are you clipping your models DoTs correctly?
• How are you distributing your buffs in your model? If you're not averaging them out like I am, are you sure these buffs which are applied to your DoTs are also being clipped properly?
• Are you making sure there isn't an error in the stats you've inputed?

I never calculated DPS first. I always make sure to calculate PPS, THEN add that into the damage formula. The PPS takes into consideration all buffs, crit, skillspeed, battle litany, everything. This PPS is then plugged into the damage formula.

Then, there's also this question, how are you adding AAs?

My Model will always calculate expected DPS to be 10-20DPS lower than in-game as all of my buffs and DoT ticks are averaged out, rather than being used on specific skills along with other, really weird stuff I cannot explain.

ive been hoarding my esoterics im a 190 drg full alex gear and a 180 law ring, i have my 200 spear and im wondering what should I buy ? people say body and legs but if i do that my melee recast goes to 2.42 which is bad, so im asking for help from dragoons who are raiding, what is the best buy order for my esoteric armor.

I haven't tested it lately, but in 2.0 the variation I cooked up myself was a bit of an overestimator if anything.

Timing my buffs with my skills better is something I really need to practice on. Been hitting B4B soon as it's up, but I guess that's not very good.
Back to the training dummy.
Thanks for the answers :D

Maybe you can point out where I'm going wrong? This is what I'm looking at (my character's current stats are plugged in).
http://puu.sh/jUCaO/a07a245d72.png

I've got calculations going there for IR and BL based on critrate, Life Surge gains calculated based on critrate, the % boost calculated based on relation of pps gain v pps values of skills+jump+dot all together. AA/Skills/Jumps (botd)/dots all split out as separate PPS calculations because of different buffs on each of them. I'm really curious where exactly I've missed something. I have the crit adjustment all the way at the end, affecting the final DPS calculation, because I assume the crit buff would be added to the "buffs" section and it shouldn't make a huge difference putting it there v building it into each DPS calculation.

This spit out 1355 which was pretty much what I parsed when testing.

And it's all multiplicative, so applying buffs to PPS or putting them under the "Buffs" section is literally the exact same thing.


woooop~

It's also not about holding B4B - it's about holding Geirskogul. The former should (generally) be used on cooldown. The latter has 3 uses per 60s, so it's flexible (within reason) when to pop it without dps loss. Should be 2 under b4b, 2 out of b4b in general, outside of the opener where you just get 1 under your first b4b.

Aaah....
Oh yea question. If you have to skip a geir due to mechanics, do you use BoTD when it's ready or do you wait until the 3rd geir before you use it?
And what's the stat weight now? Crit better than det?
ACC + SS till cap first?

If BotD is off-cooldown and ready to go AND you won't get fucked by mechanics if you pop it (for example popping it less than 15-20s or so before a jump in A1S is bad) my intuition always tells me to pop GSK on cooldown until your BotD drops off before you re-up it before your next third hit.

The stat weights are in the first few posts:
DET - 0.139
CRIT - 0.162
SS - 0.104

ACC+SS until cap, CRIT before DET.

It's all on the Front Page, Hagare.

And you've pretty much got everything covered... You actually reminded me to incorporate Life Surge gains into my Model.

How are the DoTs tracked/clipped in your model Sunny? Yours looks extremely interesting.

Musta missed the stat weight lols.
Sigh.... Crit before det. I don't like crit builds :p
Thanks for all the help guys

Crit actually affect both your CHR and CDM now, but yeah, I still prefer something that's a 100% than rely on RNG, missing those criticals by a lot.

On a side note, these number crunchers are crazy :C.
I passed 1,2k mark finally, that's actually a feat with my latency, (Tested your leatrix, Dervy, it works!)

I know the CRT changes, I've just never been a fan of RNG builds xD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greyfrost

Crit actually affect both your CHR and CDM now, but yeah, I still prefer something that's a 100% than rely on RNG, missing those criticals by a lot.

On a side note, these number crunchers are crazy :C.
I passed 1,2k mark finally, that's actually a feat with my latency, (Tested your leatrix, Dervy, it works!)

---

Wait...it does?

What kind of changes are you seeing?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RapBreon

Wait...it does?

What kind of changes are you seeing?

---

Less "Loss packets", and a very, VERY slightly lower ping, like 10~20ms combined with WTFast.

It's free and it's just install and be done with it, I'll take it any day :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greyfrost

Less "Loss packets", and a very, VERY slightly lower ping, like 10~20ms combined with WTFast.

It's free and it's just install and be done with it, I'll take it any day :)

---

I remember trying it years ago with WoW and noticing nothing.

Maybe I'll retry it. I'm wagering you're Australian (or NZ), what ISP are you with?

I'm from South East Asia region xD, Indonesia, particularly.

Honestly, from Aussie/NZ to JP Data Center shouldn't be that high of a ping? Would still be better than me.

I'm rolling at 240-260ms :C

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greyfrost

I'm from South East Asia region xD, Indonesia, particularly.

Honestly, from Aussie/NZ to JP Data Center shouldn't be that high of a ping? Would still be better than me.

I'm rolling at 240-260ms :C

---

Dude. Same country here. What are you using? Mine hovers at 100ms.
Then again I'm in tonberry.

You might wanna consider changing to a japan data center if it's that bad.

Tonberry is the unofficial SEA server after all :p