Either SMN and RDM should lose their Raise or BLM should get a Raise.

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Originally Posted by Caduagm

So what? Where is BLM unplayable? You guys keep saying that -BLM needs damage, or raise or whatever- sure it does need more damage, but you gotta consider how braindead is 4.0 BLM's rotation and how clearly this game works on rewarded jobs.
Another thing, BLM survived 4 years without a raise.
For those who don't remember, BLM was always taken over smn until creator. All the other fights, savage coil, the coils on their own, gordias AND midas had a BLM in their party and yes, I'm talking about world 1st, 2nd and so on... BLM was at 70% of the casters base UNTIL END OF MIDAS. So please for those saying that blm isn't desired on progression, please stop. It wasn't a problem before and it isn't a problem now.

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thank u very much!

Refer to my previous post about how old examples mean nothing now that this is 4.0 and there is another caster on the scene to balance around, most notably one that can dispense rez like candy.

the only thing what means nothin is your silly try to convince me, other Blms, even Blm veterans that a necro raise would be THE solution of your current misery .____.

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Originally Posted by Llugen

Everything you just listed off was pre-rez dispenser where there was no precedent for the caster role and raising in such a way. Your only choices were SMN or BLM, so SMN having it and BLM not having it really was "unique". So, NOW Raise on BLM has become an issue since 4.0 since 2/3 of the caster role has it and 1/3 does not. See how that works?

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I'm very sick of all this nonsense you are saying.
Stop saying that SMN is a rez dispenser because it's not.
Stop saying that a raise would fix BLM. IT WON'T FIX IT FOR GOD'S SAKE NOR SE WILL ADD ONE.
As I said before. This is Final Fantasy, they always and always will put lore in the first place.
So just stop with your -rage- on SMN and RDM because of their raises.

I only wanted to point out that starting attacking each other is not productive

This is true for both sides btw, I simply found the go away line a bit too much as much as I don't like others beign called unimaginative

@Llugen: yes that is very much true that they can change their mind, but considering how he said that I don't think it's that likely, that was not like Titan where he straight away said that ye it was annoying it was a firm NO!.

Casters having Rez should not be seen as a holy grail for raiding.
If you are doing raid progression and one or both healers die, in most situations at that point it's better to just wipe. The healer(s) would have to deal with weakness which can be detrimental in raid settings, and then any DPS that spend time raising the healer (s) would have to deal with a loss in damage during that time. Now doing it once may not be a bad thing but if DPS are regularly having to rez anyone, eventually your party is going to wipe to enrage anyway so it was a waste to begin with.

Alright it's easier to do most raids now seeing how easy it is to gear up, but when you are going for the practice and especially clear scenarios there is little room for death if you expect to progress. Once groups have the mechs down, any caster rez can often be unused the entire fight . BLM does not need rez for these situations, but damage/mobility to make them a DPS boss.

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Originally Posted by Neela

They did a good move with Bahamut: one big heavy visualized hit like we used to know...

...but he’s broken with an IQ of a toastbread forcing us to use a def utility to make dmg.
...our Egis are still on their release lvl/skills.
...their response due to every autoatk between their skills forbidd to at least their old skills.
... they look like requisits of windiws98
... they took nerfed our dots and even stole one (not ff lore at all but ff14 lore)
... they made us to singletarget burst Monster not comparable to ANY other ff smn

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These are things you dislike about the job, sure. But none of this is them "breaking SMN's lore for the numbers." In fact, in regards to the egis they've painstakingly stuck to their own lore regarding it, making workarounds like the demi summons. SMN's numbers got broken due to overbuffing, not because they're suddenly lore-defying.

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and I think I would even find more if wanted to... our summons/egis should be our focus not mastering the ruin mage job.

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Fair enough. But that's not something I think will be fixed at this point, unless perhaps at the advent of 5.0.

Sigh, ok. I apologize. Let me take a deep breath and rewind:

1. None of what I've said is actual nonsense, maybe a little bit of heat, but certainly not nonsense.

2. SMN is not the rez dispenser. "Rez Dispenser" is the affectionate name for Red Mage and its ability to raise every other GCD up to four times, five with Lucid, and six with Refresh and Lucid. This is what I mean about the paradigm shift when 4.0 hit; before it wasn't an issue, now it is.

3. A raise alone will not fix BLM, no, but this thread is one of about 3-4 that are active regarding BLM changes and this one in particular is dedicated to Raise (as per the title/OP). If you'd like to read our activity in the other thread(s), please refer particularly to Sfia's thread "Black Mage". Raise is absolutely a highly valuable tool for progression, though, and as I said a few pages back, no matter how much they increase BLM damage, the logic will simply become "ok so BLM is strong now, but SMN is almost as strong has loads of utility/recovery (note: raise) and can move just about any time it wants. I might as well prog on SMN and come back to BLM later", and that's exactly what I want to avoid; playing SMN for another 8 months.

Final Fantasy is the definition of reinventing itself, and black magic raise absolutely can fit into the lore, particularly for the sake of balance. We just need to be more creative than the current institutions of it.

Lastly, I don't have much rage for RDM anymore and little for SMN, but I do apologize for my rage on you. I still can't help but feel like you are deliberately misunderstanding me (note Neela's quote saying literally "your silly try to convince me". Nothing quite says closed mind like being beyond reason), and that is the source of my frustration. I've addressed your concerns specifically and you've said nothing in response to them, only "lore is important to FF." This is why I'm frustrated.



@Kurando: It should not be, but it is. Note that the world first/leading savage clearing groups said specifically that progression would have been much more difficult without RDM (and by extension refresh/lucid/mana shift)


@Dualgunner: The reason I said specifically "go home you're drunk" to Neela is because that entire post has nothing to do with the discussion. Hence the bewilderment. Oh and because he said specifically he was drunk after a holiday party.

I wish rdm didnt have res spam. I dont like they steal my shine cuse i never die:(

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Originally Posted by Llugen

only "lore is important to FF." This is why I'm frustrated.

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I'm sorry, bro; but that is, unfortunately, how this game works. The own director said how he feels about BLM x Raise.
Yes I agree with you how smn is atm. Since you can align devotion and radiant shield with tricky attack is just very strong. Also, about movement, smn always was the "bard" of the casters, so there's nothing we can do about it. Yoshida did say in the next LL about BLM's mobility. We can only hope for the best.