What makes WHM special? Nothing anymore.

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Originally Posted by Lazka

nah.. its same in every section forum (tank and dps)
just see it lol....

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Not really, at least in the dps section every class got its own thread where people discuss.
Over here everyone seems to feel the need to make his own thread.

If only we had theocrafters here that help each other like in the summoner thread.
Here it seems they purely to pop on just to say the other person is wrong.

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It sure sounds like your stated intent is in fact to mock some people...

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Yeah, and I refrained from doing so because, ultimately, it's not in my nature to be cruel to people. I'm the type who will even write an angry post, then edit it moments later to make it less hostile.

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I don't even know where to begin. I think the best thing to do is ask you why you are so angry about this discussion, and why you are so desperate to not only put down those with opinions different to yours, but also literally insulting the entire White Mage job.

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Because AST finally doesn't suck and the last thing I want SE to do is nerf it because of a small vocal minority (though I doubt they'll do that).

Also, it's incredibly annoying to see people who are still playing the best healer in the game asking for buffs because AST was brought up to the point where it's actually an option for Savage content. For that reason, it's hard not to approach this discussion with a certain level of contempt If they buffed WHM now, AST would be completely undesirable again, and we'd be back to square one. :\

And no, I'm not putting down the "entire WHM job" as there have been WHMs who have said, "So AST is viable now. What's the problem?" and I'm obviously not talking at all about them.

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As for hypocrisy, your posts are full of that, but I would like to point out that long before patch 3.07, I had posted a topic about wand and shield use for WHM in the general discussion forum. So, cool your jets a bit before you say something ban-worthy.

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I've said nothing ban-worthy and I'm not going to, but you have to realize that the changes being asked for go far, FAR, beyond you.

Wand and shield wouldn't be a dramatic change at all, and more variety is always a good thing in my mind, but you KNOW if they implemented it, people would complain about the difference between minmaxing the two and how now they have to farm Esos to buy the wand and shield after they already bought their staff, etc, etc. :\

I'm speaking more to the fact that we have people who seem to think that WHM needs its own "gimmick" like SCH and AST have, not realizing that the best healing throughput in the game IS their gimmick.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

Also, it's incredibly annoying to see people who are still playing the best healer in the game asking for buffs because AST was brought up to the point where it's actually an option for Savage content. For that reason, it's hard not to approach this discussion with a certain level of contempt If they buffed WHM now, AST would be completely undesirable again, and we'd be back to square one. :\

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Go read my post on page 19. While WHM is indeed a really strong healer, the strengths are extremely limited behind mp costs and accuracy caps which make it unreliable. WHM doesn't need to be buffed, just tweaked to be more reliable than what is now.

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Originally Posted by Eudyptes

It's not a waste of anything. Whether you get the full potency or not, free is free. It's still healing at no cost to mp. It's still a 100% net gain if it heals 5 hp or 5000.

Of course, the more you get out of it the better, but even if you are only getting a cure I's worth of healing from it you're still saving mp.

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It's like winning a free meal and redeeming the cheapest item on the menu.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

Because AST finally doesn't suck and the last thing I want SE to do is nerf it because of a small vocal minority (though I doubt they'll do that).

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I said nothing against AST, I can hardly comment on a job I haven't levelled, can I?

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

Also, it's incredibly annoying to see people who are still playing the best healer in the game asking for buffs because AST was brought up to the point where it's actually an option for Savage content. For that reason, it's hard not to approach this discussion with a certain level of contempt If they buffed WHM now, AST would be completely undesirable again, and we'd be back to square one. :\

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When you reply to me, I take that as a reply to me, if you want to make more general points, be kind enough not to target me with vitriol I don't deserve. The only 'buff' I asked for was the return of some of the potency on SS and Protect to the original job/class of the skills.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

I've said nothing ban-worthy and I'm not going to, but you have to realize that the changes being asked for go far, FAR, beyond you.

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When you reply to me, reply to my comments, not everyone elses' your reply was hostile and aggressive, whatever the changes requested that go beyond me are, I don't think I've said anything about them.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

Wand and shield wouldn't be a dramatic change at all, and more variety is always a good thing in my mind, but you KNOW if they implemented it, people would complain about the difference between minmaxing the two and how now they have to farm Esos to buy the wand and shield after they already bought their staff, etc, etc. :\

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I main PLD, you don't need to tell me the pitfalls of weapon and shield, but it adds much needed variety and a hint of horizontal progression.

I'm just a part time healer. But what I'd like to know is: how terribly are you treating your dps that this is such a worry for you guys? Are you asking them to change to flavour of the month just to eck out a bit more dps? 'Cause the reaction to AST suggests that.

All I see atm that should be of concern for WHM is being asked to switch when content is on farm. And if your group is reasonable, that shouldn't even be an issue.

Though if you're asking dps to switch and regear because of balance changes, then I guess karma's a bitch.

I think WHM and AST are on comparable footing, but from what I've read I suppose I can believe that WHM needs something else to define it from the other three classes other than high HPS over a long fight.

With the AST buffs(which were desperately needed to make it viable for raid content due to how watered down they were to SCH and WHM) I think that the Disable+Supervirus combo is going to be clutch in some raid groups due to having 20% mitigation on a tank buster/raid-wide hit/Primal Ultimate. However, what do we have that the others don't aside from HPS? With Stoneskin and the Proshell buff given to the other two healers, they can do the same things too. As for Stoneskin II, it only works for the start of the fight and that's it. Asylum is a regen bubble that's unique to us, but AST has the best of both worlds with CU(and makes them immobile and unable to do anything for 18s). Tetragrammaton is a powerful burst(practically a slightly higher potency Free Cure II) heal that's useful, but as compared earlier Lightspeed lowers the AST's GCD by 2.5 seconds, allowing for magic to be instant cast(healing especially!). I think the downside to Lightspeed is that AST is using more MP for instant heals.

If I wanted to make WHM stand out from the other classes(which SCH has shield healing, capable of pulling up shields, mitigation, etc.; AST has cards that can increase raid-wide DPS, reduce damage, and shave seconds on the Off GCD Skills), I'd say give us back our stronger version of Stoneskin and also make Disable+Supervirus overwrite the current(exception of Anti-Virus)mitigation debuff so that WHM isn't overshadowed by AST through that heavy mitigation.

Edit: Just had a thought: Lightspeed currently allows AST to heal instantly, and can be comparable in burst to us. What if there was a 10% potency reduction on healing for instant casts?

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

Edit: Just had a thought: Lightspeed currently allows AST to heal instantly, and can be comparable in burst to us. What if there was a 10% potency reduction on healing for instant casts?

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That's not how lightspeed work. It reduces cast time but not GCD.

Divine Seal>Light Speed = PoM (though no reduced MP)

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

Edit: Just had a thought: Lightspeed currently allows AST to heal instantly, and can be comparable in burst to us. What if there was a 10% potency reduction on healing for instant casts?

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Lightspeed only reduces cast times making some spells instant, it doesn't increase burst capability because the global cool down is unchanged. AST therefore gets the first heal faster and the subsequent heals continue at the same rate as without it. Not a healing increase just mobility. For the mobility there is already a loss of attack potency. Lowering potency on heals for its duration would cause a net loss in healing output for AST, while not improving or changing the "Identity" of WHM in any way.


White Mage as has been stated and explained many many times is in no danger of being "Out healed" or over shadowed by anyone. The "identity problem" looks more like people being A) Bored with the class, B) Don't and haven't enjoyed the playstyle or C) Are just selfish and upset that AST got a buff and WHM didn't.

The answer for A) play another class for a while, give yourself a chance to miss it.
B) Why play WHM in this case?
C) Is just a terrible person and should get out.
Proposing QOL or gameplay changes to class is perfectly fine and is part of the purpose of the forums. Suggesting nerfs to other classes in order to make your favorite a special snowflake is just makes people sound like they belong in the "C" group.

mp management thats not partially rng based
freecure