OFFICIAL Eorzea's Next Top Model Discussion Thread

I just sent my info to Tyriont, so when he posts the casting call thread you will get a better understanding of it. Just you wait my dearrrrrr ^^

This was my round 11 resub. The placeholder sucked.

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/12...633/hVInMz.png

Allow me to post some clarifications!

Cycle three will continue as planned, with a guys contest and a girls contest, combining them near the end. The only real change there is that I'm now hosting both, while Rongi remains as a judge for the women's contest. To that end, if the judges from that side could e-mail me so I have your contact info, I'd greatly appreciate it.

As a reminder, the judging panels currently are as follows:

Male Contest Judges: Kyri, Tinsley, Vahn, Maxwell
Female Contest Judges: Rongi, Kaelah, Yunie, Morina
Backup Judge(s): Yomi

As host, I will also be serving as a judge on both panels.

Judging Changes: Judging will continue as it did this cycle. My one change is that I will be asking each judge to submit at least a short sentence of constructive critique for each model in each round, with the intention of helping all our models improve as the contest goes on. I'm alright with leaving the comments anonymous, but I would like to ensure that every model gets constructive feedback!

Cycle Three Casting Call: The thread for Cycle Three will be posted this coming Saturday, 10/11. Casting will close on Wednesday, 10/22. On Saturday, 10/25 I will announce the casts for both halves of Cycle 3 and a week after that, Rongi will announce the cast for the YouTube contest (via video! {Please look forwards to it.}). Each applicant will be asked to state whether they're applying for Cycle 3, YouTube or both. In the case of applicants registering for both, Rongi and I have agreed that Cycle Three will be prioritized over the YouTube contest, so if that's the one you really want to enter, don't enter for Cycle Three! There will be no requirement for specific numbers of each race! However, I and the judges will be looking for talent expressed in best adapting the theme, working with the background etc, so don't assume that any race is inherently advantaged/disadvantaged.

Cycle Three Round One: Also on 10/25, I will provide instructions for the first shoot to the selected models. Round One will go up on Saturday 11/1

Cycle Three other notes: Themes will be shared between the male and female contests, so as to ensure an even footing between them. For themes, I will be following these guidelines:

• Nothing requiring "cute" or "sexy" shots, to keep race balance
• No level 50 battlefields required. My shot list is done and there is only one low level dungeon in it.
• All requirements should be clear and unambigious
• Theme descriptions will not be changed and will be posted in the round threads as they were provided to models

Finally, I would like some feedback from past, present and future models regarding the submission of screenshots and the rounds. For Cycle 2, models were provided a list of all the round themes and submitted them all at once as at least placeholders then were given the chance to update shots as needed. I am considering changing this up and instead releasing one round at a time - so following the above timeframe, when Round 1 goes up on 11/1, I would then e-mail the models the description of round 2. In my mind, this helps alleviate the mass swapping of shots we've seen this cycle, as well as meaning models eliminated early don't "waste" time taking shots they don't need to - though I still hope to see example shots from eliminated and non-models alike in the discussion thread for each round!

I do understand though that this means more focus required week-to-week, and introduces the risk that we might lose a model due to them not submitting a shot on time. I haven't yet decided which way to go with this, so I'd like any thoughts on this!

For submitting screenshots in Cycle 3 I think you should still give the full list of round themes/rules ahead of time. You don't need to require placeholder shots ahead of the date to be submitted, but it would give models some leeway in taking photos ahead of time if they had commitments one week that would prevent them from taking the shot. I think this is even more important for this cycle as the Holiday season is coming up and would potentially get in the way of models being able to get their shots taken on a week to week basis. Models that have commitments for a particular week would be able to plan ahead of time and still be able to turn in a shot.

I think another good reason to not work on a week to week basis is when you have shoots like the "Stormy make over" one, you'll run into issues where the weather in game may not be cooperating for the week. Say a model needs or desires a particular weather effect for their shoot, but only has a limited amount of time that week to take the shot. It comes down to RNG of the weather spawning when they are able to make it online. In the end they may not meet the weather requirements or desired effect for a particular shot because of only knowing a week ahead to plan and take the shot. That could lead to models feeling rushed and result in weaker photos.

I know you're trying to prevent mass photo swapping, but just don't allow models to send photos for a round ahead of time. If they send it before the turn in window dates just don't accept the photo.

Omg Yuni and Kaelah! I can tell two girls who would have kicked all the ass this round! Thank you for sharing your pictures! Do you mind if I save them? Im a sucker for amazing pictures^^

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Originally Posted by Kyri

Omg Yuni and Kaelah! I can tell two girls who would have kicked all the ass this round! Thank you for sharing your pictures! Do you mind if I save them? Im a sucker for amazing pictures^^

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Be my guest, glad you like it. ^-^
P.S Your last shot is amazing for the lulz. :3

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Originally Posted by Minorinz

http://i.snag.gy/uwXhG.jpg
Also, not sure how the YT version would work, I kind of don't get it x:

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I love this one! & yes I agree with you there, I am slightly confused about the YT one.

Wow, Kaelah and Yuni had the exact same idea for their shots didn't they? Lol!

Kaelah, i love the petals and ability in your shot!
Yuni, yours looks like a blackhole is opening up! Haha i love it!

Anyone else super excited for Saturday?! New meat coming in! I expect all the veteran models to haze them. LOL Jk

You'll see the details then for the YT edition! ^^

Nariko, i can't remember if you were on the C3 Panel or the YT Panel! I'm under the impression one of the other judges in the girl's panel is going to quit, so i've requested Tyriont fill the space with you (since i think thats the panel you were on!) In the event a judge doesn't leave, I am sorry the switcheroo cost you the judge position for Cycle 3. I still have a spot open for the YT Edition if you are interested in that! (I think?)

After the casting goes up and details for YT are up, i'll post in here for judges once more. I know its tyriont kurri and i but who else was it? :O

The judges for YT (i'm going between 5 and 7) will be required to chat about eliminations in a group message, so we can either do a group chat on skype (the messages are persistant right? Tyriont can log on at 4am and see all the mesages we made through out the day right?) or we can all use a messaging app if we all have smart phones. I use LINE. we will be discussing the photos and choosing who to eliminate, so its really inportant we have a way to conversate. ^^

I was YT~ which email would you like me to forward contact info too?

Rongi, Kyri/Ciara/Mackayla (pick the name, she uses them all :p) was also on the YT panel.

but its okay if we have a large amount of people on it, id rather not take 2 panels when there's people trying to get in. Whatever is fine for me^^

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Originally Posted by Tyriont

Finally, I would like some feedback from past, present and future models regarding the submission of screenshots and the rounds.

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I think having the models submit on a round to round basis potentially will lead to random, unscheduled dropping out by people who get lazy or tired or just don't want to do the next assignment. This could lead to problems having enough models make it through to the end rounds. On the other side of the coin, having to turn in too many shots at once leads to early drop outs like we saw at the start of cycle 2 as they didnt have the time to get them all finished.

I like the surprise element of each round but maybe for the first half of the rounds or so, give them a list and have them submit all shots for the first half. then those that make it through get the next list of shots. This will insure you have a full cast for the rounds and the ones that make it through to the final few rounds are already vested in this and would have more incentive to get their shots turned in. You will have some drop outs but, you dont want so many that the contest fizzles

Maybe make it so there is a max of X resubmissions for the entire event. thinking no more than 3.

Thank you Ciara, Kaelah and Rongi for your feedback!
I hope lotsa people participate for cycle 3 : D !
I'll wait for an explanation for the YT contest thing, sounds like it's gonna be fun to watch~

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Originally Posted by Kaelah

This was my round 11 resub. The placeholder sucked.

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/12...633/hVInMz.png

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This is what you call a very good screenshot. A+

I'm glad I'm a judge now, much less work involved being a judge ;D lol (also don't worry, my critique will be alot more detailed than this :P)

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Originally Posted by VahnValbosce

This is what you call a very good screenshot. A+

I'm glad I'm a judge now, much less work involved being a judge ;D lol (also don't worry, my critique will be alot more detailed than this :P)

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Aww shucks thanks. Thankoo all who like my shots. I was most proud of this one so gutted I didn't make round 11 lol. Looking forward to judging though! I agree with Vahn, less work: LESS STRESS! :3

Okay whew!! I was so worried about Nariko xD

And i THOUGHT it was you Ciara!!! XD sorry. Ive been at school so searching the pages is a chore.

I'll probably add two more seats...but still thinking about it. 7 judges might be harder to coordinate but more opinions means more opinions and a fairer decision of who gets eliminated. But i will have to work harder editting critiques down/leaving some out so first few round of videos are not 30 minutes long haha. If two judges say the same thing i'll just choose one to put in the vid, etc and give everyone equal airtime.

Kaelah that is probably one of if not the best picture youve shown! You've grown from a lucky lil kitten into a super model swan! (I failed biology)
The effects compliment each other and dont overwhelm the shot. It's just perfect and ill be using it as an example shot for my cycle's final free style round. Take notes incoming models! That is a great shot!

I have got a great "extra" shot for this round. O.k. well, I have tons of shots in battle but this one was my favorite of this week.

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/j...ps38cbd4e0.png

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Originally Posted by Kaelah

Aww shucks thanks. Thankoo all who like my shots. I was most proud of this one so gutted I didn't make round 11 lol. Looking forward to judging though! I agree with Vahn, less work: LESS STRESS! :3

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This is a perfect reason why I would like to see a system where one unpopular does not overturn a good solid run. I would like to see at least two rounds before anybody is removed. Another example was Kin, she had a solid run and was removed because of one photo.

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Originally Posted by EorzeasNTM

Kaelah that is probably one of if not the best picture youve shown! You've grown from a lucky lil kitten into a super model swan! (I failed biology)
The effects compliment each other and dont overwhelm the shot. It's just perfect and ill be using it as an example shot for my cycle's final free style round. Take notes incoming models! That is a great shot!

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Thankoo so much. ^o^ lol kitty swan. This was such a by chance one, I was on my way to a hunt, ran past this FATE (Lightning) and thought ooooeh that boss is funky. Then I saw when Odin appears he showers petals. So I started spamming cast/screenshot til I caught the petals too. :3 Luckily the boss was in a nice position also. Was on the last day of the event ha.

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Originally Posted by Kurique

I have got a great "extra" shot for this round. O.k. well, I have tons of shots in battle but this one was my favorite of this week.

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/j...ps38cbd4e0.png

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For a moment there, I thought the UFO Yovras from FFXI were back @_@

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Originally Posted by Parodine

For a moment there, I thought the UFO Yovras from FFXI were back @_@

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lol it took me a while to realize its Raff xD

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Originally Posted by Kurique

I have got a great "extra" shot for this round. O.k. well, I have tons of shots in battle but this one was my favorite of this week.

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/j...ps38cbd4e0.png

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@Kurri Ooo Kurri I love this one! It looks like a silver Krakken is slowly coming down to eat you haha. The thing on the right in the foreground also gives the photo depth! Really cool.

@Hyperia Telling model A that even though they didn't get the lowest score they have to go home because Model B is better is absolutely horrible. (What if Model A's votes are 15 and Model B's is 4?) Most Models already walk away from this contest hating being involved with it, but something like THAT would REALLY make them hate it. And image if Model C and Model D had been neck and neck in First and Second place the entire contest and then they both appeared in the bottom two slots. Would we save them both and eliminate the THIRD lowest?

It works on reality shows with anonymous voters, famous judges, and unknown nobodies competing for a prize, but it doesn't work for such a close knit community like this where we are supposed to be friends just doing this for fun.

Maybe Tyriont can figure out a way to do it that will please everyone involved, but I couldn't see any positives from it.

As for the YT Cycle, there will be a twist that -kind of- goes along with what you want, but it isn't a model -save- feature, so please look forward to that! *tee hee*

Almost makes me wish that, rather than sending anyone 'home', everyone stays and you tally points at the end. TT_TT But it would be way less dramatic, huh? ;p

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Originally Posted by Sadana

Almost makes me wish that, rather than sending anyone 'home', everyone stays and you tally points at the end. TT_TT But it would be way less dramatic, huh? ;p

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Yup, also, it would mean that if you do make all models submit all shots for every round before the first one goes live - it doesn't feel like wasted time if you say, have one poor shot. (Or were unlucky in a double elimination like me lol ; ; ) It takes away some suspense yes, but at the expense of poor feelings and drama, might be worth it?

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Originally Posted by Kaelah

Yup, also, it would mean that if you do make all models submit all shots for every round before the first one goes live - it doesn't feel like wasted time if you say, have one poor shot. (Or were unlucky in a double elimination like me lol ; ; ) It takes away some suspense yes, but at the expense of poor feelings and drama, might be worth it?

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Since Rongi makes you guys take placeholder shots before the start of the whole competition, I do think a tally system at the end would be better as opposed to the current elimination system. A lot of you guys put tons of thought and effort into each shot and to get done in by one week that you couldn't find the inspiration for isn't really fair in my books. Kin had 1 weak picture and it negated all the strong photos she had in the previous weeks.

A better system I think, if you guys really wanted to keep the current system as is, would be to maybe do double eliminations on a biweekly basis. So instead of just basing eliminations off of 1 picture, it'll be based off 2. Even if one picture is weak, as long as the other is strong, the model will still have a chance of surviving. In order to ensure that the work load on the models isn't increased, make it a double elimination every other week.

I for one have no particularly strong feelings about keeping things tied to any method for the sake of it being more exciting or dramatic. I've been putting some thought into the suggestions I've seen, and here's what I'm coming up with thus far.

Option One: Keep things as they are, eliminate one model per week based on combined votes and judge scores
Option Two: Eliminate nobody, tally all votes/judge scores at the end to announce a winner
Option Three: Eliminate nobody, award points based on placing for the round (1st place gets 5, 2nd place gets 3, 3rd place gets 1, etc)

I'm not willing to implement a judge save system or anything like that, because I only see madness, hurt feelings and drama down that road.

Right now I'm personally leaning more towards option 3. My reasoning behind this is as follows - as unlikely as it may seem, let's say one model has an utterly amazing round where the clear the votes by, say, 20 points ahead of second place. Then their next two rounds are utterly terrible. Should that good round really keep them in top position then? It's also a -lot- of votes to keep track of. So I like the idea of giving points based on the top three positions each week - I feel as if it would keep the contest closer and more exciting.

It seemed like general consensus was to release the full shot list ahead of time, but only start accepting submissions for each round later, which I'm totally fine with. We did have some wonderful shots from eliminated models that I'd love to see get the exposure they deserved!

So anyways, those are the three options I've come up with so far. I'd like any feedback/thoughts on those. If needed, I may post up a poll so people can vote for their preferred method and we'll go with the general vote on that.

Option three sounds good given that reasoning. :3

I like option 1 the best, followed by option 3 and i think option 2 is just terrible so don't do that one!

I have decided not to enter again. Mostly all the whining and complaining has made me not want to. I will still follow the contest and vote though. :)

I personally like riskier stakes. If using option 2 and 3 I wouldn't look at this as a competition at any point anymore. I don't see any reason for a model to 'try their best' and risk anything. Additionally, if model A wins 2-3 times in a row, they /could/ technically be lazy on said next shoot and not risk anything/ put much time into the photo- and thus really not need to worry about being sent home. Judge & player critiques really wouldn't mean much seeing as their going to be staying the entire time and judges would simply be used as a tally up holder.

I wouldn't want to deem someone ENTM unless they prove to be aggressive and fierce every round. If they emo out over not being picked / not getting votes / upset about going home because their picture was the lowest that round regardless of having a decent portfolio, this contest probably wasn't for them in the first place.

http://31.media.tumblr.com/8356f2600...d38uo2_500.gif

My only concern with option 2/3 is that if someone is very consistently towards the top (w/ with the tallied votes), I wonder how voters will feel motivated to vote toward the later rounds. Like, why bother if it's already mathematically set in stone? It also kind of hampers people growing through the competition. Like if you do poorly in the beginning but your later pics are phenomenal, you probably don't stand a chance to someone who was consistently above average even if they weren't necessarily top 3. I don't know how likely that is since the top photos have sort of been shaken up week to week, just wondering about 'what if' kinda scenarios.

People will be able to keep track of total votes pretty easily. While I don't want to stick with option 1 for the drama aspect, I sort of fear the final rounds won't mean very much with any other options.

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Originally Posted by SulwynCaliope

A better system I think, if you guys really wanted to keep the current system as is, would be to maybe do double eliminations on a biweekly basis. So instead of just basing eliminations off of 1 picture, it'll be based off 2. Even if one picture is weak, as long as the other is strong, the model will still have a chance of surviving. In order to ensure that the work load on the models isn't increased, make it a double elimination every other week.

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I like this idea potentially as a compromise between options 1 and 2/3. I don't really like the idea of a judge's save (I do think it would be drama personally) but I do agree some rounds people have uncharacteristic flops or just don't get a theme. I think it might provide a bit of a cushion to help out.

Adding on to what Nari and Maxwell have already said (I agree with most of it)

Keeping everyone around would destroy the narrative of the competition. What I mean by this is there is a model that had been struggling in the early rounds of the competition just barely getting by each round. Each round the model gets better and better to where they are winning rounds and not just skimming by. The model then ends up winning the competition because of their hard work towards getting better and becoming one of the best in the shoots. This creates a story for the competition and makes it more interesting. This narrative is completely ruin by the idea of keeping all 12 the whole time.

I think the double elimination is a good compromised though. Models can have a bad shot and still can still try to save themselves with a great shot in the 2nd round of the set. Models that are strong both sets wont need to worry about being eliminated. I'm not sure how each round will work out time wise, but if it's anything like this Cycle we will have 2 rounds a week which would work out to have the 1st round the 1/2 of the week and then the 2nd round the 2nd half and then the results get posted on Sunday.

Only question I have is, how are you going to join the boys and girls with options 2 & 3?

I agree with you guys actually so I'll change my vote to stay the same I guess. If you can't deal with being in the bottom sometimes then don't sign up people. :D

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Originally Posted by Kaiyoko

Only question I have is, how are you going to join the boys and girls with options 2 & 3?

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...and this is a fabulous point!

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Originally Posted by Kaelah

I agree with you guys actually so I'll change my vote to stay the same I guess. If you can't deal with being in the bottom sometimes then don't sign up people. :D



...and this is a fabulous point!

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Yes that is an excellent catch there. How will you merge the two? o.o

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Originally Posted by Tyriont

Male Contest Judges: Tinsley

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http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2.../Wat_buffy.gif
TINS! You're a guy!? LOL.

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2.../Wat_buffy.gif
TINS! You're a guy!? LOL.

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lol no, were judging for the guys XD Well Idk maybe they are? but im a judge for the males too and I am 100% woman :3

Also I like the third option presented. Im not a fan of eliminations. Id rather see everyone have fun till the end tbh. Sure sure it fits the show I get that but were not really following the show, and thats been stated as much, so why not? From what ive gathered quite a few of the people eliminated haven't left this contest under the best of feelings, no longer care what were up to and instead of having fun are disappointed or mad. So yea... Id rather see a system that keeps people enjoying themselves rather then walking away wishing they never bothered.

@Double Photo Elimination Idea - I don't hate this idea as much as I hate Option 2, Option 3, or a Model Save Feature. xD

If this is what Tyriont decides on, I'd be fine with it.

Instead of calling it a Double Photo or Bi-Weekly Elimination though, I would ask that you call the first photo a Weekly/Round Challenge and make it a Scenic Picture (River, Forest, Starry Night, etc) and call the second photo "this round's theme" or "this week's photoshoot" and make it be a Theme (NPC Coordination, Library) or an Action Shot (Ifrit's Cauldron).

This way it still resembles the show, models have two chances before they are eliminated, and models are still eliminated.

So my vote is, and will always be, Option 1 but if not that, than Option 4 (two pics/per elimination) sounds great too. ^^

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Originally Posted by pageybear

I have decided not to enter again. Mostly all the whining and complaining has made me not want to.

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If you did want to enter again. the YouTube cycle sounds like it'd be a better fit for you! The youtube videos and forums might be filled with "whining and complaining" but only the people who come to the forum/read the comments will see them, and since the series is finished before any of it is even uploaded all their comments will be fan talk. ^^

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2.../Wat_buffy.gif
TINS! You're a guy!? LOL.

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hahaha i never caught that. Alas. my dear I am all girl. I hope you aren't disappointed :)

When merging, the top scoring models would be taken from each contest and go into the final rounds with a clean slate. Please keep the discussion going though! We'll never get 100% agreement on which is the 'best' way to do it, so I'm watching to see if gaping holes emerge in any proposed method and if one emerges as generally more popular :D

Kaelah and Yuni, if you two had made it to this round voting would've been insanely more difficult...such great shots!

As for the elimination style for Cycle 3, I was initially a fan of Option 3 when it first came up a while ago - for the sake of fun and allowing all contestants to still show off, even if they're in the bottom or would've already been eliminated - but as others have mentioned now, it truly does remove the stakes and style of the source material for this competition. If a contestant can't handle being on the bottom or getting voted off, they need to understand that before they go into it, do their best to step up their game, and at the end of the day try not to retain any hard feelings (like the kind we've seen this cycle @_@)! And if anyone is disappointed they got eliminated and won't get to share their future round photos, they can still stick around here and join in the discussion, like everyone else who's still here in good spirits.

At the same time, ENTM doesn't have the same stakes or nature of competition as actual reality competition shows (no tangible prizes, crushing-of-dreams lol etc), so I think it is important to keep some element of fun and "forgiveness" for the contestants. "Option 4" in that case sounds like a decent compromise if you can find a way to implement it so that it makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Parodine

Here's the link to view them just for fun (not votes, etc): http://imgur.com/a/p957a#0

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the link doesn't work anymore ;n; curse my inactivity!!!

If you wanted to use Option 3 but still keep the elimination aspect, maybe eliminate models with the lowest points after certain rounds? Although that could lead to complications and be a hassle to manage too.

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Originally Posted by Kaelah

This was my round 11 resub. The placeholder sucked.

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/12...633/hVInMz.png

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*GASP!*

So beautiful! Even the Aspect of Chaos wants to hug you!

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Originally Posted by Tinsley

hahaha i never caught that. Alas. my dear I am all girl. I hope you aren't disappointed :)

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I know ARIAS isn't disappointed. :P

http://www.thehomeplanet.org/wp-cont...12/2j2yckk.gif