Frontlines sucks Ultra megathread

You know, I don't even understand the concept of farming wins. It isn't difficult to complete achievements, even queuing casually- by that I mean once or twice a day.

I have played PvP games in which we held rank, in those games it meant sense to form and remain in premades since rank affected so many aspects of the game, but what does it count for here? There are no gear requirements in PvP, there is nothing to gain from holding a rank or specific achievement while in FL, and there are no special rewards, especially no timed rewards.

So it's honestly a concept I find rather difficult to understand, I find this a mode where it's really one where it should be possible to focus on enjoying PvP itself.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

It's been raised in this thread, but unfortunately Olivia and I have likely obscured it.

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

Yes, it has been suggested. It might even be more reasonable to say it could happen if they're trying to make the game "more stressful" or whatever. But unless you know a pvp dev we've reached the logical end of that discussion ;-;

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Originally Posted by Scintilla

As the others have said, yes the idea has been proposed before. Initially, it doesn't seem like a bad idea at all and would encourage players to push for improvements. But it isn't at all straightforward and there are various issues with such a suggestion:

1. To give better rewards for wins/kills etc., it would just encourage more players to take the easy, high-profit, minimal effort premade option, which would push more regular and new players away from FLs

2. To reward by damage/kills would give some classes an advantage over others. For example, SCH is huge damage numbers for very little effort.

3. How are other contributions going to be judged? For example, a MNK using their LB and knockbacks to try to stop a particularly troublesome enemy DRK. They would be contributing to the team immensely, but that might not be reflected in the statistics at the end of the game.
Whether it is possible somehow to measure such contributions, we have no real way of knowing.

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I am just about out of ideas. I'm not sure how to get others to care about winning without turning the atmosphere tryhard if such an option exist in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Astralrisk

To be fair, if you are playing to farm wins then I don't see why you wouldn't try and find/make a premade to do them with. Not saying it's an absolute requirement to do so, but getting friends or just randoms who also care about getting wins shouldn't be incredibly hard to find.

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I don't play to farm wins. I play to enjoy competitive matches. Or did. I've currently joined the ranks of the daily one-and done.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

You know, I don't even understand the concept of farming wins. It isn't difficult to complete achievements, even queuing casually- by that I mean once or twice a day.

I have played PvP games in which we held rank, in those games it meant sense to form and remain in premades since rank affected so many aspects of the game, but what does it count for here? There are no gear requirements in PvP, there is nothing to gain from holding a rank or specific achievement while in FL, and there are no special rewards, especially no timed rewards.

So it's honestly a concept I find rather difficult to understand, I find this a mode where it's really one where it should be possible to focus on enjoying PvP itself.

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Completely agree. But if you browse the PvP Discord servers, you'll come across "noob-farming" strategies discussed by people who wish to top the monthly leaderboard. I guess I admire the dedication despite viewing the goal as pointless, but it's ruining the mode for everyone else. It's not a new problem; just seems to be in an obnoxious phase of the cycle right now.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Completely agree. But if you browse the PvP Discord servers, you'll come across "noob-farming" strategies discussed by people who wish to top the monthly leaderboard. I guess I admire the dedication despite viewing the goal as pointless, but it's ruining the mode for everyone else. It's not a new problem; just seems to be in an obnoxious phase of the cycle right now.

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Having encountered pretty much all kinds of personalities in PvP elsewhere i guess I shouldn't be surprised, it's just so pointless in a mode (not to mention code) that's not really designed for competitive PvP (just the targetting system alone is a nightmare, but i digress)

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Originally Posted by Mistress_Irika

I am just about out of ideas. I'm not sure how to get others to care about winning without turning the atmosphere tryhard if such an option exist in the first place.

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I think the bigger picture is that the current situation encourages churn, and that in itself ensures that the overall skill level doesn't increase. Specifically, new players tend to get driven out by despondency and the miserable experience they have, to be replaced by other new players and the cycle repeats. Meanwhile, many of the more experienced players who enjoy the mode, but who play solo, reduce their participation or quit entirely. In such an environment, the only people who play the mode consistently are members of premades, some of which are asymptoting to skill cap. The average skill cannot rise under those conditions.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

Having encountered pretty much all kinds of personalities in PvP elsewhere i guess I shouldn't be surprised, it's just so pointless in a mode (not to mention code) that's not really designed for competitive PvP (just the targetting system alone is a nightmare, but i digress)

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Yeah it baffles me, although doesn't quite compete with the worst excesses of EVE. (For example, during a massive multiday battle, one individual cut the power lines at the house of an opposing senior fleet commander.)

I'm sorry I laughed a lot harder than I should have, that was pure evil, I really could never condone that (God forbid somone in that house relies on their power)- but one part of me admires their creativity.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

You know, I don't even understand the concept of farming wins. It isn't difficult to complete achievements, even queuing casually- by that I mean once or twice a day.

I have played PvP games in which we held rank, in those games it meant sense to form and remain in premades since rank affected so many aspects of the game, but what does it count for here? There are no gear requirements in PvP, there is nothing to gain from holding a rank or specific achievement while in FL, and there are no special rewards, especially no timed rewards.

So it's honestly a concept I find rather difficult to understand, I find this a mode where it's really one where it should be possible to focus on enjoying PvP itself.

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Only real reason I see to do it is just to get the achievements for the 100/500 win achievements. Having unique mounts and titles, or a whole gear set in the case of Seal Rock, is a big enough of a chase for some people to try and farm out wins. Especially since their is a daily rotator for FLs, so it's technically more strict to try and farm out depending on people's schedule.

I know people also want to farm for series/job XP and tomes, but I only really see it being valuable during moogle Trove events where Wins gives you more moogle tomes I think? Maybe it might be the best content for farming Wolf Marks, which I think is a pretty good currency to spend if you play PvP a lot, but I don't know if FL is really the best place to farm out Wolf Marks(but I don't think a lot of people are going to form a premade just to farm wolf marks lol)

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Originally Posted by Astralrisk

Only real reason I see to do it is just to get the achievements for the 100/500 win achievements. Having unique mounts and titles, or a whole gear set in the case of Seal Rock, is a big enough of a chase for some people to try and farm out wins. Especially since their is a daily rotator for FLs, so it's technically more strict to try and farm out depending on people's schedule.

I know people also want to farm for series/job XP and tomes, but I only really see it being valuable during moogle Trove events where Wins gives you more moogle tomes I think? Maybe it might be the best content for farming Wolf Marks, which I think is a pretty good currency to spend if you play PvP a lot, but I don't know if FL is really the best place to farm out Wolf Marks(but I don't think a lot of people are going to form a premade just to farm wolf marks lol)

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Yeah I never know what to do with Wolf Marks now I've got all the glam I want.

In addition to the win farmers, there's also a subset on the Discord servers who are most interested in "padding." Assuming the term means what it did a decade ago (maximizing damage/kills at the cost of playing sub-optimally in terms of team goals), it's again a rather troubling mindset.

Remarkably, I've even seen players report damage inflicted on a single attack (to six significant figures). Given that is only possible if you're using a you-know-what, which is a violation of ToS and bannable, it amazes me such a thing would be reported in a public Discord. It seems these people feel they are above the rules of the game. And if that kind of information is being shared publicly, I dare to think of the shenanigans that are being discussed via DM. I won't even get into voice channel construction that seems designed to facilitate win-trading, partly because I guess there could be a perfectly harmless explanation.

Overall, it's profoundly depressing.