The tawdry female bosses are tiresome, and we could do with more male fanservice.

How about let the developers do what they have done over the course of many years and build the game without community input?

That sounds good to me!

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

How about let the developers do what they have done over the course of many years and build the game without community input?

That sounds good to me!

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Ok so we go back to having
-no way to trade 99 totems for the trial mounts, so pure rng to get it
-No ilv requirement on levelling dungeons enjoy the brayflox geared tank in Mt. Gulg, with having to wait 5 mins to kick if they or you don't leave.
-3x Eureka Pagos style due to not changing their direction from Anemos feedback
-no story modes for 8 man raids, all savage to know what happens
-loot in savage being 100% random with no token to buy if unlucky
-Sch having no energy drain, Ast being the lowest performing in hps and rDps while being the most busy of the 3 healers. Dun lollies remaining as they were in SB
-Remove some hairstyles and armor from the game(newest crafted gear was a community designed piece etc)

I could go on but the point is there, the community does give worthwhile ideas and the devs do take it into account and sometimes implements them, we just never know what gets passed on

Sometimes the devs view on things is the wrong view and having a community that is willing to point it out is healthy for the devs.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

OK.. I gotta say this before we go too much farther with legging/no legging.


Does what equates to basically painted on pants make THAT much difference?
When I see some girl/guy with yoga/spandex pants or some equivalent on.. it's really not a mystery anymore. You might as well be wearing a thong and sometimes it makes it "better" anyway since stretchy stuff lifts and compresses a lot of imperfections.

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To answer your question, in my opinion, yes. Skin tight clothing is still different from being naked.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

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My b. I forgot one single instance of "attractiveness" in Omega M. Yeah, he is pretty neat. However, I am going to strongly disagree with all the Kefka comments because he is an evil clown and Neo Exdeath because literally what.

At this point it feels like people who are not attracted to males are just listing off male characters, as if people who like men will foam at the mouth for any male who walks on the screen regardless of whether or not they even look human.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

So the request here isnt "Well we need more men to dress and look like women" but acknowledge what male forms are 'attractive' and whether theyre on display. Raktapaksa, depsite being a demon, has definable male characteristics that are seen as attractive. Odin Centaur has the same, so does Titan. Then you also have Omega M. But these are disqualified because...? Theyre 'grotesque' or Monstrous?'? So if you are saying "Well we need more male characters like Shiva", you need to define what aspects outside of the feminine are being requested - You want to show more skin? More bulky beefy masculine bodies? Less monster and more Chippendales with fantasy armor?

Then there's the flip side - why arent we implementing more ugly and horrific monster women? A way to reach the parity that is being complained about is to just have more monster like female bosses. Or the, of course, tried and true thought process of "objectifying" things. If you create more bosses that are fantasy chippendales, then that falls under the same scrutiny people have about bikini plate vs functional armor. Or does that point just up and disappear the second it's on a male character.

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I think a good question to SE is why are traditional female bosses enhanced by their element whilst men are herniated to theirs ? Byakko's arm, Odin's & Seiryu's centaur, Neo's amalgamation. And if they're not a herniated Ron Swanson, they've been androgynized to the point that they stray far from those traditional male characteristics.

We know what female beauty is. It exists all across ffxiv in a spectrum where most would put Shivaesque bosses at the top of traditional female beauty standards. But we cannot translate a Shiva for males ? We can have fantasy women but not fantasy men ? You yourself said objectification is not inherently bad, and I agree, but fantasy men aren't inherently chippendale. I don't exactly understand the rest of that line and what it has to do with the topic.

Going back a bit, Shiva is an expression of pure modern day conventional female beauty which has no male comparison. From her clothes, to her pose, to her very model, she is undoubtedly a planned beauty in the hands of SE. SE knows how to design female characters and does it very well. She is so beautiful, SE made a model of her that sells.

How did they do it ? It's quite easy to see. They design a traditionally beautiful woman to be a translation of her element. The element is an enhancement to her rather than the element being enhanced by features of a woman. For example if we compare Shiva to teenage mutant ninja turtle broodmother. And there are qualifiers which we can easily identify of a boss that is enhanced by her nature. Human skin. Human sexual characteristics. Most, if not all, of the model conforms to normal humanoid shape without a sudden diversion like High Ultima.

I mean, to have to request and state the features of what is modern day male beauty at Shiva level would convey that the designers are out of touch with the male image. Then again, in all honestly I'm confused by them because they can make bosses like e8s Ramuh and Byakko and I'm utterly blown away, but then donkey kick me because they've gone and done me a photoshop meme watch this animal seamlessly turn to into another animal.

Sidenote to others : we're talking about bosses here, stop bringing up non bosses.

Male classical beauty hasn't changed much since ancient greece, no one can say that it's not clear what makes an attractive male, both body and face, look at classical greek statues, look at today's actors considered hot, Henry Cavill, Chris Evans, Ryan Gosling, etc. Looks we're constantly bombarded from the media. look at a gym picture, clothes brands, underwear ads, all of them feature guys that are considered sexy.
We know in japan (where ffxiv is made) things are a bit different with what is considered a handsome man, but still many things are just the same as the rest of the world.
not because am ugly demon has pecs and a 6 pack is means it's handsome. it's a mix of lots of things. the clothes (or lack of) the face features, the pose we see, the facial expression, the body shape, all of that mixed is what a boss more or less sexualized. Look at Shiva, she has all of that, a sexy body, revealing clothes, beautiful face and expression, sexy pose. I haven't seen ANY male boss that has all of those things together.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

OK.. I gotta say this before we go too much farther with legging/no legging.


Does what equates to basically painted on pants make THAT much difference?
When I see some girl/guy with yoga/spandex pants or some equivalent on.. it's really not a mystery anymore. You might as well be wearing a thong and sometimes it makes it "better" anyway since stretchy stuff lifts and compresses a lot of imperfections.

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I think it would if SQEX added leggings with fun patterns.
Personally, I'd love some horizontally stripped leggings.

We have a few already, but we could have more, especially imagine the opportunity when bosses go super mode- like if Zenus goes kaioken or something.

That said I just wanted to note on the pejorative used for females (tawdry) but then at the same time asking for nearly or basically the same thing for males. . . I just thought that was a bit ironic.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Sometimes the devs view on things is the wrong view and having a community that is willing to point it out is healthy for the devs.

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I'd agree in general, but in this particular case, it's a matter of stylistic choice and preference, not a matter of right and wrong, unless you take some moral issue (which doesn't appear to be the case for this thread as the thread creator simply wants the same thing done for more male bosses), in which case, the ratings for this game already tells you what kinds of things you might see/hear in this game.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

I think it would if SQEX added leggings with fun patterns.
Personally, I'd love some horizontally stripped leggings.

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Oh for sure, I'd love more bottom options for everyone. I'm just saying when we're talking about sexualized characters, does it really matter if we're seeing actual "cheek" or just everything but the skin?