Monk Positionals 6.0

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Originally Posted by meowmaou

I can give NIN a recommendation for any ex MNK mains. Been enjoying EW NIN far more than EW MNK. Lots of neat tools and things to do.

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Haven´t touched it yet, are there even major changes? I personally didn´t enjoy NIN so much in the past. "Just stuck behind the boss" and rotate with your Mudras has been like "MNK without positionals". Since the Mudras are ranged tools, you didn´t even have to think much about uptime or disengages. The animation-stuck on that jumpskill isn´t great at all. It´s not that engaging and while aesthetic has a minor effect to me, i dislike the basic and movement animation too.

No other melee has the feeling of the fast and positional-heavy MNK. DRG is too slow and stucks in his jumps, SAM has everything you want, but even there it´s just "wush wush, midare" and shinten sometimes. Not really fast and engaging at all away from the dashcombo. Haven´t played much RPR yet, but it seems pretty easy and overrated.

MNK with his fast positionals and sometimes heavy button float has been engaging. Especially those TK-BS-TK-BS-TK-BS dance has been great to perform, no matter how easy it was in the end.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

From my point of view. This person would rather MNK be completely exclusive for some sort of self fulfilling entitlement to hold over all the casuals to say, "You will never be as good as me!".

Some people just don't like change....even if they can't see that shakes things up for the better.

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Please don’t get us wrong. We like change, only if it is good. There are just too many flaws with Monk right now as others have already pointed out:
1) lack of offensive oGCD’s
2) lack of Positionals
3) Misaligned buffs
4) Questionable abilities such as RoE & RoW
Many of these flaws would be masked by positionals if they didn’t remove them, but they did… Casuals won’t see these flaws as issues because they never play a class to its full potential. They don’t care about its core gameplay and probably won’t even attempt harder content such as savage/ultimate. Casuals prefer easier rotation over challenges because doing big damage without actual skills makes them feel good. If you compare the current monk with any other melee dps, you will find out how hollow the kit of monk is. It actually feels like a level 60 job. Personally I was very hyped when I saw MB on the live letter. I think the idea of it is good, but in the end SE executed it very poorly. I get that the change has already been made and it will not be reverted in the short term if ever. This is the reason why I don’t understand why people like you who like the change is here deliberately provoking people here who truly loved monk for its positionals and fast pace.

I still don’t understand why SE would cater to more casual players on this specific class. Why monk has to take the blunt while other melee dps’s remain intact? Only SE would know.

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

Haven´t touched it yet, are there even major changes? I personally didn´t enjoy NIN so much in the past. "Just stuck behind the boss" and rotate with your Mudras has been like "MNK without positionals". Since the Mudras are ranged tools, you didn´t even have to think much about uptime or disengages. The animation-stuck on that jumpskill isn´t great at all. It´s not that engaging and while aesthetic has a minor effect to me, i dislike the basic and movement animation too.

No other melee has the feeling of the fast and positional-heavy MNK. DRG is too slow and stucks in his jumps, SAM has everything you want, but even there it´s just "wush wush, midare" and shinten sometimes. Not really fast and engaging at all away from the dashcombo. Haven´t played much RPR yet, but it seems pretty easy and overrated.

MNK with his fast positionals and sometimes heavy button float has been engaging. Especially those TK-BS-TK-BS-TK-BS dance has been great to perform, no matter how easy it was in the end.

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That jump skill you dislike is gone at high levels now, replaced with the big combo oGCD. In terms of new stuff, the main things are an extra AoE mechanic and Raiton leading into a combo of 2 GCD gapclosers that are lost if you use a different GCD before them. Some people hate it, but I think judging the right timing for them is a lot of fun. It's the closest I've felt to MNK on another DPS job, even if I don't find some of the animations (mainly the idle stances and basic 1-2-3s, those are what make or break a DPS for me most of the time but I've stuck with NIN cuz it's fun, they're the reason I don't really want to play DRG or SAM because they look so dumpy) as nice as MNK's.

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Originally Posted by Atamis

I feel like they could add in Assassin to bridge the gap between monk, nin, and drg so everyone could have a class they like.

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Hell yeah, have a split "promotion" for Rogue like Arcanist has. Either go full weeb into NIN or stay as a dickass thief with Jackie and the gang. I'd love that.

I don't really like double Phoenix Rising in the opener, it feels like an oversight rather than how it was actually designed...

I think you guys think to much into things instead of accepting circumstances.

Why double rising phoenix? Just hold onto that PB until RoF comes off cd. Everything is solved rotation wise. It aint rocket science.... Maybe just maybe, it isn't a design flaw, but rather that a lot of you players are trying so hard to make things work like they used to or you just want things to make snse for you, rather than accepting the sense they absolutely make, but you don't like it.

It might be time to admit that the fact is we are NOT pro gamers, and we are NOT game developers, at least not on the level of who makes this game. So maybe just chill on how oh so much you think is the right way, and just accept you actually don't know much.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I don't really like double Phoenix Rising in the opener, it feels like an oversight rather than how it was actually designed...

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Don´t know if i would even take care about it. And don´t know the exact DPS stats right now, but given to balance it´s only more useful in a raidgroup with a lot of 120s buffs. And if all of them line up in random groups or more casual related statics is questionable.

I´m not saying you shouldn´t give your best as DPS, but as long as you don´t want to run around in farmgroups for a 99 parse, it looks like there is not really a need for a minor gain with an "if the raidgroup..." in it.

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Originally Posted by Navnav

Why double rising phoenix? Just hold onto that PB until RoF comes off cd. Everything is solved rotation wise. It aint rocket science.... Maybe just maybe, it isn't a design flaw, but rather that a lot of you players are trying so hard to make things work like they used to or you just want things to make snse for you, rather than accepting the sense they absolutely make, but you don't like it.

It might be time to admit that the fact is we are NOT pro gamers, and we are NOT game developers, at least not on the level of who makes this game. So maybe just chill on how oh so much you think is the right way, and just accept you actually don't know much.

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Do you even have a clue ppl are talking about? Doesn´t look like it and if SE really overseen double phoenix, then a bunch of players are better in math then SE´s entire balance-team.

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Originally Posted by Navnav

I think you guys think to much into things instead of accepting circumstances.

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Said the one who opened multiple threads about MNK and how shitty positionals are. You didn´t, but we´ve to? Selfish much hm?!

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Originally Posted by Navnav

It might be time to admit that the fact is we are NOT pro gamers, and we are NOT game developers, at least not on the level of who makes this game. So maybe just chill on how oh so much you think is the right way, and just accept you actually don't know much.

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We're not on the same level as developers you claim are amateurs? Interesting.

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Originally Posted by Navnav

I mean, you can't have abilities pop off almost two seconds after you hit the button and actually sit there and tell me that this game has been coded well. It is amateur at best.

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Originally Posted by Navnav

I think you guys think to much into things instead of accepting circumstances.

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So says the person who has been incessantly campaigning for the removal of positional requirements rather than accepting circumstances.

Also what people are doing is attempting to create an opener and rotation that allows the job to do its best possible damage. This isn't over thinking things, this is the thing that people who really know a job do every time a new expansion comes out, especially in cases where new job skills massively change the rotation of a job.

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Originally Posted by Navnav

I think you guys think to much into things instead of accepting circumstances.

Why double rising phoenix? Just hold onto that PB until RoF comes off cd. Everything is solved rotation wise. It aint rocket science....

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This dude doesn’t even know how important is an opener to optimising dps. Please stop acting you know better…

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

Since the Mudras are ranged tools, you didn´t even have to think much about uptime or disengages.

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Wouldn't this be the opposite, now that Ninjutsu has two charges and is therefore bankable? Outside of saving for TA, you'd want to save them for relative mobility... which amounts to thinking about uptime and disengages.

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Originally Posted by Miralyth

I can't agree with the premise of your argument toward me. Your base counter-example uses cast bars, which are not volatile in the same situations that positionals are and therefore have a different feel to them. If you wanted to compare me liking positionals or not to a mechanic that is exactly the same and ask me about it, that would be fine.

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They're both gameplay factors that oblige preemptive, and often sequenced, movement.