Marriage feedback [inofficial Poll]

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Originally Posted by Azurus

Its sad that video games have become too much like real life...very, very sad. They are no longer an escape from the grind of life, just another political vehicle for people to push their views, regardless of subject or stance.

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Everything has meaning, the difference is you either don't notice it because it was embedded too subtly or it is a part of a stream you naturally accept and don't consider it. ("Well yeah what about X game, there is no meaning its just to kill people" - there is meaning in that as well.)

The ability at which video games can confer meaning has evolved but they have always told stories, just like books.

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Originally Posted by Azurus

Its sad that video games have become too much like real life...very, very sad. They are no longer an escape from the grind of life, just another political vehicle for people to push their views, regardless of subject or stance.

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your right bro why are people useing the one thing we use to get away from the troubles of the world to throw us back into it, someone must draw that line in the sand or fact and fantasy will become one and the same and thats where the trouble starts...

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Originally Posted by Kallera

While I'm fine with waiting for a response from the dev team. I would like to mention this. Intentionally rude postings in an attempt to close this thread will not invalidate the findings of the poll, and will only result in more threads being created on this issue.


You are not doing the moderators a service. And you will make whatever side you are on look bad.

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An unofficial poll on the first page of these thread should all that matter it isn't what invalids for the yes/no vote its the <insert page it begins> to the 137th were its just drama that really doesn't serve much of a purpose to that poll you voted for.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Everything has meaning, the difference is you either don't notice it because it was embedded too subtly or it is a part of a stream you naturally accept and don't consider it. ("Well yeah what about X game, there is no meaning its just to kill people" - there is meaning in that as well.)

The ability at which video games can confer meaning has evolved but they have always told stories, just like books.

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they often told stories that only loosely resembled real life, while portraying it in a manor otherwise unknowable in reality. Now they are just a mirror directly reflecting every bias, agenda and political engine we are already bombarded with on a daily basis. It is no longer subtle, Its just another day on CNN.

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Originally Posted by Azurus

they often told stories that only loosely resembled real life, while portraying it in a manor otherwise unknowable in reality. Now they are just a mirror directly reflecting every bias, agenda and political engine we are already bombarded with on a daily basis. It is no longer subtle, Its just another day on CNN.

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The reason why it was suggested to change the name of the ritual is because of it needing to be loosely based on real life rather then a direct connection. I am for homosexuals having marriage in real life as well but I understand people dont want to think about rights - so that's why the simple "hush hush" fix is to just change the whole history of it by making a new one.




Games have stepped on peoples toes in the past as well - its just not fun when its stepping on your toes (those against the rights of the homosexual community).

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Originally Posted by Azurus

they often told stories that only loosely resembled real life, while portraying it in a manor otherwise unknowable in reality. Now they are just a mirror directly reflecting every bias, agenda and political engine we are already bombarded with on a daily basis. It is no longer subtle, Its just another day on CNN.

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You can only make so many remakes of Arkanoid.

But seriously, Come to think of it, why the interest in a mmo if you want to play totally devoid of real life issue and societies? The main things you interact with are other real life people. The developers need a realistic world to convey substance, and give it meaning to the player. This is called world building. And in the context of this topic, real life people are being separated a social event by a choice on the character creation screen. This is meaningful to us because while our characters are based on Eorzea. Many do not separate their character interactions with our experiences as the player, the is little "roleplaying" done or needed in most mmorpgs.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

The reason why it was suggested to change the name of the ritual is because of it needing to be loosely based on real life rather then a direct connection. I am for homosexuals having marriage in real life as well but I understand people dont want to think about rights - so that's why the simple "hush hush" fix is to just change the whole history of it by making a new one.

Games have stepped on peoples toes in the past as well - its just not fun when its stepping on your toes (those against the rights of the homosexual community).

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If you read my posts like 1000 pages back you'll see that I am also in favor of them having the right in rl, though in game right now I think SE handled it so poorly that now it is just a socio-political slug fest and I wish they had just scrapped the entire idea to save the game this kind of exposure. I wish game play related threads reached this kind of page number though i really do, would make the forums more fun to read. But anyway if they decide to call it something different will that please both sides? For some reason I don't think it will. Its been tried in real life already after all. (goes back to exactly what I said about being a mirror anymore)

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Originally Posted by Azurus

If you read my posts like 1000 pages back you'll see that I am also in favor of them having the right in rl, though in game right now I think SE handled it so poorly that now it is just a socio-political slug fest and I wish they had just scrapped the entire idea to save the game this kind of exposure. I wish game play related threads reached this kind of page number though i really do, would make the forums more fun to read. But anyway if they decide to call it something different will that please both sides? For some reason I don't think it will. Its been tried in real life already after all. (goes back to exactly what I said about being a mirror anymore)

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I think they should have just released it allowing same sex by not even making the system check sex. Be like bethesda and Skyrim who didn't even mention it until someone brought it up on a twitter account and the guy was like yeah w.e not a big deal its there.

Calling it something different in real life has a lot of problems that dont exist in video games. As we already have different gods and you dont see Christians going "WTH!!! there is only ONE not TWELVE!". There is a suspension of morals* that I think some would be absolutely fine with a different name and lore basis. *(beliefs? rules? not saying we lose all morals lol but obviously dont kill people goes out the window).

Using real world names draws deeper correlations and may destroy the suspensions (like calling a god Jesus would probably be a no no lol :P)

I dont think using a different name will appease all but good luck appeasing everyone in the first place lol.

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Originally Posted by Azurus

they often told stories that only loosely resembled real life, while portraying it in a manor otherwise unknowable in reality. Now they are just a mirror directly reflecting every bias, agenda and political engine we are already bombarded with on a daily basis. It is no longer subtle, Its just another day on CNN.

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This guy is the voice of reason , simple and neutral . Biased people wont accept it was a bad idea to add this sometime later to the game all together , most people pushing for this have no interest in it directly they only happen to be a friend of gay person so the vote doubles. this will be drama if they implement it and drama if they don't and the game does not need that at all

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Originally Posted by Warlock

This guy is the voice of reason , simple and neutral . Biased people wont accept it was a bad idea to add this sometime later to the game all together , most people pushing for this have no interest in it directly they only happen to be a friend of gay person so the vote doubles. this will be drama if they implement it and drama if they don't and the game does not need that at all

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I don't know about everyone else, but I'm not pushing some political agenda or anything like that. I just want this game feature to be accessible by all players, regardless of character gender. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Honestly, even if they do implement it a vast majority of any "drama" that will occur will happen immediately once this decision is made/implemented. Down the road I hardly think anyone will make a big deal out of it. At most they'll likely hear of it in passing. Just like every other "controversial" game decision that's made it'll be a huge deal for a week at most and then it'll fade away.

As I've said, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, once they announce a final decision I'll respect that. They have made a decision but asked for feedback so it's not what I'd call final. Once that happens though, I'll leave it at that.

[QUOTE=Calling it something different in real life has a lot of problems that dont exist in video games. As we already have different gods and you dont see Christians going "WTH!!! there is only ONE not TWELVE!". There is a suspension of morals* that I think some would be absolutely fine with a different name and lore basis. *(beliefs? rules? not saying we lose all morals lol but obviously dont kill people goes out the window)

Its pretty simple if you think about it in the real world we do have many different types of religions/beliefs out there even new ones created during our lifetime not just Christians. When you have that many different types of beliefs out there it bound to stir the pot of putting one belief against another each side believing there is the correct one. A mmo cannot escape this being a virtual world you’re not getting away from the human factor that the player is still tied to the real world that includes those beliefs and it will bleed into the game period. I could give plenty of examples but everyone lives in this world were belief and ideas are always at odd against us.

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Originally Posted by odintius

=Calling it something different in real life has a lot of problems that dont exist in video games. As we already have different gods and you dont see Christians going "WTH!!! there is only ONE not TWELVE!". There is a suspension of morals* that I think some would be absolutely fine with a different name and lore basis. *(beliefs? rules? not saying we lose all morals lol but obviously dont kill people goes out the window)

Its pretty simple if you think about it in the real world we do have many different types of religions/beliefs out there even new ones created during our lifetime not just Christians. When you have that many different types of beliefs out there it bound to stir the pot of putting one belief against another each side believing there is the correct one. A mmo cannot escape this being a virtual world you’re not getting away from the human factor that the player is still tied to the real world that includes those beliefs and it will bleed into the game period. I could give plenty of examples but everyone lives in this world were belief and ideas are always at odd against us.

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So when does this become Final Liberty XIV where we must run everything by the moral cockles of every American association with the word "Family" in it? Before or after Shiva gets her approval from the Hindu religious organizations? Or would it be before the soccer moms review our emotes again to make sure everyone's legs are together?

I understand making the game accessible is important, SE must've been pleased with the PEGI 12 rating. But "beliefs and ideas" are not people. Applying the gender restriction to the ceremony will not only discriminate the population, it will also hit relationships that are not even of the same sex.

And for what? To make certain all the lalafel and miqo'te call girls in Ul'dah are for men only? You think they'll be satisfied with that?

Kallera, fix the quote tags please >.< I know it's not your fault because the post you're quoting is missing a ] lol

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Originally Posted by Kallera

So when does this become Final Liberty XIV where we must run everything by the moral cockles of every American association with the word "Family" in it? Before or after Shiva gets her approval from the Hindu religious organizations? Or would it be before the soccer moms review our emotes again to make sure everyone's legs are together?

I understand making the game accessible is important, SE must've been pleased with the PEGI 12 rating. But "beliefs and ideas" are not people. Applying the gender restriction to the ceremony will not only discriminate the population, it will also hit relationships that are not even of the same sex.

And for what? To make certain all the lalafel and miqo'te call girls in Ul'dah are for men only? You think they'll be satisfied with that?

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Why because you and others could not accept that maybe the company decision was based on marriage being a man and women? Then SE have asked for feed back from the gaming community and expect it to be just your view on it and no one else's? That how the world works hun so get use to it at the end of the night it not shiva or hindu logging off at night it you with you own views that maybe the company doesn't share 100% with.

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Originally Posted by odintius

Why because you and others could not accept that maybe the company decision was based on marriage being a man and women? Then SE have asked for feed back from the gaming community and expect it to be just your view on it and no one else's? That how the world works hun so get use to it at the end of the night it not shiva or hindu logging off at night it you with you own views that maybe the company doesn't share 100% with.

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Perhaps you should take some of your own advice and consider that maybe they asked for feedback because they actually want it. You don't know, maybe they felt it was best to see what the community had to say before making a final decision. Perhaps SE and Yoshida are willing to take the brunt of the negative reaction if the players truly want it.

You don't know, perhaps their values are more aligned with being cautious and simply doing what the fans want in this regard. That is another, opposite point of view you should be willing to see as well.

In truth no one here knows what they really want, what their values are or what they're going to do. All we know is that, for whatever reason, they asked for feedback.

Duh read the bold maybe if they add it they add it

Oh I have stated many times already that I could care less if they add it or not I just saying I will respect the company decision of how they implement something that others seem not able to do. So please read the other post of mine beside hitting the last page button and deem that my stance on the whole subject jeez.

I have nothing against weddings in game or same gender weddings, still I think it should be a community created event.

Community can do this without the help of the game dev.

Just have that nice church, throw in a player crafted costumes that looks like wedding outfits, and let the players do the rest.

actually i took part in a community based wedding in FFXI in front of the big waterfall in Lufaise Meadows and it was great.
the couple exchanged self crafted rings with signature.
i think it was better than the official procedure because it was very personal. organized by friends for friends.

This shouldn't have been an issue.

If the answer to whether or not same gender unions would be an option was yes there would have maybe been a few eyebrow raising posts from a few players, but it would have died down, and probably quickly since most wouldn't of cared.

Now that the answer is no, there will constantly be threads about it until it is fixed.

Once it is fixed ... just watch the threads die, and focus shift back to the game.

Fix it ;p

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Originally Posted by RexValentino

This shouldn't have been an issue.

If the answer to whether or not same gender unions would be an option was yes there would have maybe been a few eyebrow raising posts from a few players, but it would have died down, and probably quickly since most wouldn't of cared.

Now that the answer is no, there will constantly be threads about it until it is fixed.

Once it is fixed ... just watch the threads die, and focus shift back to the game.

Fix it ;p

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sweet if thats all it takes I am going to make complaints about everything till they all get fixed. I am going to start with being italian. All the avatars look to northern european, I wont play till there are some italian looking avatars. Until there are I am being discriminated against and I want it!!one1! And why cant i choose my avatars political affiliation! come on people if we dont make threads on all of this how will they get changed! Screw the game I want my politics! It IS the game now!

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Originally Posted by Azurus

sweet if thats all it takes I am going to make complaints about everything till they all get fixed. I am going to start with being italian. All the avatars look to northern european, I wont play till there are some italian looking avatars. Until there are I am being discriminated against and I want it!!one1! And why cant i choose my avatars political affiliation! come on people if we dont make threads on all of this how will they get changed! Screw the game I want my politics! It IS the game now!

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Make a thread on the topic, get 500+ likes, the devs might consider it.

Got no problems with same-sex avatars coupling off in a ceremony that we'd identify with marriage. Prefer it if it were more identifiable with handfasting (though that's a personal choice for what I feel would fit in Eorzea). Would be best all round if the lore in-game reflected whatever ceremony is implemented and there was an explanation for any restrictions of gender or race.

Why are we still beating this horse, is there really that much life left in it?! Until SE gives a reply reading "based on the feedback we have decided..." we are spinning the weals in the mud... there's no more road for a solid discussion. As it stands. It's all personal opinions, which biased, and unsupported!

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Originally Posted by Azurus

sweet if thats all it takes I am going to make complaints about everything till they all get fixed. I am going to start with being italian. All the avatars look to northern european, I wont play till there are some italian looking avatars. Until there are I am being discriminated against and I want it!!one1! And why cant i choose my avatars political affiliation! come on people if we dont make threads on all of this how will they get changed! Screw the game I want my politics! It IS the game now!

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You're welcome to go ahead and try.

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Originally Posted by Twiddle

Why are we still beating this horse, is there really that much life left in it?! Until SE gives a reply reading "based on the feedback we have decided..." we are spinning the weals in the mud... there's no more road for a solid discussion. As it stands. It's all personal opinions, which biased, and unsupported!

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Because people are passionate about making their points. Unless you're employed by Square Enix to moderate these forums, we could do without your input about whether the thread should be closed or not.

I still see various points brought up from time to time to take into consideration.

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Originally Posted by Twiddle

It's all personal opinions.

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^ This.

There are 3 major groups.

1) those who want a wedding ceremony, but not SSM
2) those who are pro SSM, but not calling it marriage
3) those who don't want marriage at all

is there a point to exceed that to another 1000 posts?
please close this.
if 1400 posts are not enough input for the Devs to deal with, i don't know what is.

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Originally Posted by Phe

There are 3 major groups.

1) those who want a wedding ceremony, but not SSM
2) those who are pro SSM, but not calling it marriage
3) those who don't want marriage at all

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Ladies and gentlemen. We'll be taking your guesses as to the bias behind this post.

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Originally Posted by Kallivis

Ladies and gentlemen. We'll be taking your guesses as to the bias behind this post.

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I dont know you tell me? As just a page ago this poster was talking about having a community run aspect to marriage which they did not list. dont attack their post if u cant be bothered to read back a page.

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Originally Posted by Kallivis

Ladies and gentlemen. We'll be taking your guesses

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Oh. another point.
We'll be taking your guesses how many posts Kallivis did in this thread and how many percent this is.

I see no real reason not to include same sex marriages. It affects no ones game play what so ever, and for those who don't want it, it's not like you have to attend marriage ceremonies or anything. If some players want same sex marriage, in what way does that impact anyone else? If you want to get into the controversy of real life issues (such as why we should or shouldn't have same-sex marriage) then go some where else. In a game, the controversy should be on game play mechanics like raids and drop rates.... oh and grass and jumping of course as well.
My point is, it has no affect on you what so ever if you don't plan to ever have a same sex marriage in game, so no one really has any right to say the players who do want it, shouldn't have it.
Also (here's where I turn part hippy) Love, peace and acceptance!

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Originally Posted by Phe

^ This.

There are 3 major groups.

1) those who want a wedding ceremony, but not SSM
2) those who are pro SSM, but not calling it marriage
3) those who don't want marriage at all

is there a point to exceed that to another 1000 posts?
please close this.
if 1400 posts are not enough input for the Devs to deal with, i don't know what is.

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So you're saying there are those who don't want SSM and will only be okay with calling it marriage? Or that there aren't people who are pro-SSM who would like to call it marriage? There's more to it than just those 3. There's also people both for and against who may have no interest in getting married in-game at all.

As I've said before, let the mods decide if this post should be closed or not. It's their call and they're watching this thread closely anyway.

Until then, thanks for the "close this thread" bump!

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Originally Posted by Ralos

I see no real reason not to include same sex marriages. It affects no ones game play what so ever, and for those who don't want it, it's not like you have to attend marriage ceremonies or anything. If some players want same sex marriage, in what way does that impact anyone else? If you want to get into the controversy of real life issues (such as why we should or shouldn't have same-sex marriage) then go some where else. In a game, the controversy should be on game play mechanics like raids and drop rates.... oh and grass and jumping of course as well.
My point is, it has no affect on you what so ever if you don't plan to ever have a same sex marriage in game, so no one really have any right to say the players who do want it, shouldn't have it.
Also (here's where I turn part hippy) Love, peace and acceptance!

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I agree whole heartedly. Due to the nature of how SE handled the question they opened up the community for it to start the drama. Not saying it is their fault it is SE fault for not handling it correctly. They chose the questions to answer during the live letter. If the answer is too controversal for them to give a flat out answer at the time maybe they should have, i dont know, not fielded that question until they decided what they wanted to do? Instead they asked for feedback but took a stance slightly toward the no side by not flat out allowing it right away. This is turn caused the controversy and this 1400 post mega thread...

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Originally Posted by Azurus

I dont know you tell me? As just a page ago this poster was talking about having a community run aspect to marriage which they did not list. dont attack their post if u cant be bothered to read back a page.

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We're dealing with a thread that has an overwhelming majority in favour of SSM and he happened to bring up a 3-point summary, placing "against SSM" at the top. Nowhere in that summary is "those who favour SSM marriage" (he chose to leave out marriage).

Am I being meticulous? Maybe a little bit. People should actually pay attention to the thread before making a post like that, especially considering 80% of all the best points (and summary of the bigger picture) lay on the first two or three pages.

I still find it difficult to understand the opposition. I may be a very opinionated person, I won't lie. But, I at least try to do what most people don't and put myself into the shoes of who I'm debating with and understand their perspective. I can understand not being attracted to the concept of SSM. I support it, but there is a part of me that is bothered by having it near me in real life. The thing is though, I'm intelligent enough to know that that mild turn-off is normal, as normal as homosexuality itself.

I get worse disgust when people eat peanut butter. How could anyone in their right mind possibly enjoy peanut butter? Good lord it is the worst smelling and tasting thing I've ever experienced. I almost get sick when people eat or talk about peanut butter. I thi--- uuuurp...

But I don't tell people that they can't eat peanut butter just because I find it disgusting.

Considering we are dealing with a fantasy world full of homosexuality and the concept of balance that still remains the biggest point to be had here. You don't even need to bring real life politics into the picture. It's already in the game. Politics completely aside, SSM wins. The opposition keeps bitching about bringing up politics to support SSM. The only reason SSM is not in the game yet is DUE to politics. If we didn't have those, there wouldn't be an issue.

So since everyone keeps harping on "focus on the game itself", SSM should be added, as the concept is already part of the game.

@Kallivis....how...how can....HOW CAN YOU NOT LIKE PEANUTBUTTER!....o dear *faints* forget gay marriage we got bigger problems in this thread.... oO

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Originally Posted by Kallivis

Because people are passionate about making their points. Unless you're employed by Square Enix to moderate these forums, we could do without your input about whether the thread should be closed or not.

I still see various points brought up from time to time to take into consideration.

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Based on the info in this thread, the opinions, ideas, and so on. That have been expressed, i think that all that needs to be said has been said. And some sort of info needs to be brought from the horses mouth before we can further expand.. No i have no relation to SE, past am a client.

sure i think same sex marriage is fine :P

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Originally Posted by Twiddle

Based on the info in this thread, the opinions, ideas, and so on. That have been expressed, i think that all that needs to be said has been said. And some sort of info needs to be brought from the horses mouth before we can further expand.. No i have no relation to SE, past am a client.

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I believe that whether or not everything that could be said has been said in this thread is up to the mods. They've kept it open thus far, so I'm sure they have their reasons to.

Also, I'm pretty sure that being repetitive isn't something that mods lock threads over. Not on that merit alone.

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Originally Posted by Keisuna

I believe that whether or not everything that could be said has been said in this thread is up to the mods. They've kept it open thus far, so I'm sure they have their reasons to.

Also, I'm pretty sure that being repetitive isn't something that mods lock threads over. Not on that merit alone.

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Well, that was the stated reason for closing the other thread but there were likely others. I mean 90% of the forums is the same recycled crap over and over again pretty much.

the mods have left this thread open for the conversion to continue in. All over threads will be locked while this thread is on the first page. this has been on the first page for two weeks so I don't see them locking it anytime soon without a dev response in place atleast.

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Originally Posted by Azurus

sweet if thats all it takes I am going to make complaints about everything till they all get fixed. I am going to start with being italian. All the avatars look to northern european, I wont play till there are some italian looking avatars. Until there are I am being discriminated against and I want it!!one1! And why cant i choose my avatars political affiliation! come on people if we dont make threads on all of this how will they get changed! Screw the game I want my politics! It IS the game now!

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What i think is political in nature is that instead of making this feature of the game available to everyone (as it's intended), they are limiting it so that some players are excluded. If you add a feature and have it available to everyone ... people might get upset about it as a feature and complain ... but when you add a feature, and then limit which characters can use it properly, you can get complaints/comments not only on the feature added, but on the fact that it was limited as well. This not only increases the chance that there will be complaint threads, but also that there will be discussions on why the choice to limit the feature was made. This goes for any feature added.

In the recent translation posts it was mentioned that certain bonuses will be given to married couples, like being able to teleport to your partner using your rings. If you truly want a partner of same gender, then your only option to get/benefit from these bonuses would be to marry someone of the opposite gender. This would will lead to more fake in game marriages, which in another translated post was mentioned as something they wanted to avoid. They mentioned limiting bonuses to prevent this ... but people will do anything for bonuses no matter how small ;p

With smaller bonuses/wanting to avoid 'fake' marriages it seems like the feature to 'marry' might be geared toward the role playing community (or the community that lives in the game like it is their life). This would seem to make limiting the choice by gender make even less sense since these people care more about the realism/etc. feel of the game.

In my opinion, the best option to make this feature available to everyone (and since we all pay for this game, this feature should be available to us all!) would be to change it to unions and avoid the whole marriage mess ... and let it be between any two players. This would be all inclusive and allow everyone to get the bonuses (and any future added bonuses) with the character of his/her choice. :D ... and as mentioned in previous posts, people would still be able to hold their own character based ceremonies if they want something more limited.

The second best option ... just allow/include same gender "marriages," or add something to where people could have similar in game bonuses between any character they want (that way it isn't 'fake' XD).

SE is a business and i doubt has ties to anything truly political ... and from a business standpoint it is best to discuss how the players think/feel about things that might effect their profits. ... It would be hard to change my mind when it comes to this ... more freedom=good ... the first option is best !

I have already sent my official suggestion by using the support site.

Here is a link to make an official suggestion, for anyone interested. ^^

https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...a=1&p=0&fo=288

Here is one to the support site in general:

http://support.na.square-enix.com/main.php?la=1&id=902