How to Dragoon Per Second: A DPS Paradigm

Double post for some reason -_-

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Originally Posted by ValeriaL

Since we are talking about ACC. I thought I\\\\'d ask (and im not sure if this is against the posts that should follow this thread if so i apologize) if anyone else is having a hard time getting their ACC down with upgrades and what are the common pieces you should aim for esoterics? So far I went with wpn > ring > chest (tomorrow) however getting the chest means again too much ACC that I am not sure is worth taking.

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The chest has a huge amount of accuracy, and the boots have a pretty good amount on them. However, the belt, helm, and pants all result in a significant drop of accuracy from the 190 gear. If you're good on accuracy, I wouldn't go ring and chest first, as you're going to end up with way more accuracy than you need.

Also, I'm not sure how useful the BIS based on accuracy for the four savage floor lists are, considering they're based on having the best gear from all four floors. If you have the 210 Gordian weapon, you don't really care about the bis for A1S most likely.

More useful would be a BIS of attainable gear for people working on A1S, A2S, etc. Which would discount drops from that floor or higher.

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Originally Posted by ValeriaL

Since we are talking about ACC. I thought I\\\\'d ask (and im not sure if this is against the posts that should follow this thread if so i apologize) if anyone else is having a hard time getting their ACC down with upgrades and what are the common pieces you should aim for esoterics? So far I went with wpn > ring > chest (tomorrow) however getting the chest means again too much ACC that I am not sure is worth taking.

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I'm getting chest this week and will have too much accuracy for at least 1 week, will get head next week and that will help. Could get pants instead of chest, but I don't know.. Feels like 180 -> 200 chest better than 190 -> 200 legs. Accuracy will work itself out later /shrug

EDIT: Changed my mind and getting pants this week then will hold out for chest in 2 more. Will end up around 625 accuracy which is at least in the ballpark for whenever we get to a3s.

We have nearly the same gear (I have 200 neck for sksp, you have 210 ring). So you could get away with pants this week instead of chest as well.

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Originally Posted by PheonixCain

i'd say we should at least have 590+ accuracy for A1S, i had 591 for the first time i cleared it and i still missed on the add (the MCH in my static got 595 acc and also missed on the adds too,)

that A1S acc cap is insane..

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I missed Leg sweep on one of the adds yesterday, with the announcement of it displaying on my screen. As i was waiting for the poison circles to drop the add still had a fair bit of life on him :/ I have been running with 593 acc.

Also missed a CT which broke the access to my 4th during one of the attempts, which was annoying. Other than yesterday though i haven't really noticed any major/many misses during my runs so i can't be too far off; unless i'm mistaken that i should be safe with the acc i have atm?

If it helps any, I missed a hit in A3S frontally as a monk with 635 accuracy yesterday.
I noticed it especially since it caused me to drop gl3 lol

Trying to decide whether to go Necklace/Helm this week or Body or Legs. ._. Gear of course in my profile, but I'm sitting with the i210 A2S boots, the Eso belt, and right side's full Gordian/Proto (Ring/earring are 210)

So at this point, nothing will give me a 20 ilvl gain. I'm at 623 Acc (near 640 with food) so that's why I'm thinking about which piece to get. I've had okay luck in Savage this far.

Hey, I don't really post but thought I'd share some A3S opening theorycrafting I've done since a lot of cool things are being done here.

In A3S, when I started out doing the normal rotation (HT-IDC4-P-TTT4-Repeat) I found that at ~620 Skillspeed (2.4s GCD), at the phase change from "human" form into a hand, my Disembowel would go off without the damage or the debuff almost every time. The combo continued though, and when the Living Liquid became vulnerable again I had CT queued. I found this to be a terrible situation, because now myself and the bard had no piercing debuff for a VERY long time unless I wanted to SERIOUSLY clip my CT. I thought there must be a better way, so I decided to open with Phlebotomize and perform the follow rotation until the phase change:

HT - IDC4 - TTT4- P - Repeat

After the phase change, the normal rotation of HT - IDC4 - P - TTT4 - Repeat is followed, starting with disembowel

Let me list the advantages:
-Lose ID damage instead of Disembowel damage+debuff
-Less loss of phlebotomize DoT dps

Disadvantage:
-This opener is slightly (3%) weaker for the first iteration (up until HT#2)
EDIT: This may have been confusing, as it is not technically weaker because I take 410 potency in the beginning in exchange for giving up a weaker skill before the phase change. This should only lower your normal "burst" parse, not the overall parse

The disembowel being queued up for the phase change is fairly obvious as to why it is a benefit. I don't have to clip CT shorter than normal and piercing debuff is up right away. The advantage to refreshing Phleb late in the rotation is a) Don't clip the 1st Phleb. b) When the phase change happens in this case, Phleb has just been renewed 3 GCDs ago. You lose 3 ticks during the phase change and you only lose 1 tick from it falling off the GCD before Phleb comes up in the NORMAL rotation. If you refresh Phleb according to the NORMAL opener, it times out the last 3 ticks during the phase change, plus you lose 3 more ticks before Phleb comes up again in the rotation. In summary, if you clip the first Phleb, you lose 3 ticks from the first, 3 during the phase change, and 3 from it not being up compared to just 3 during the phase change and 1 from it not being up when you do not clip to get the buffed Phleb up sooner.

Unrelated to the opener but an additional thing I've learned about A3S is that you can completely cancel the knockback from Wash Away with a precisely timed Jump, SSD, or DFD. This is particularly useful because if you use DFD in the opener, you can't use that at all for either Wash Away to get back because it's not off cooldown. With SSD's minute cooldown, you can only use it to get back from one Wash Away. You can use Jump for both Wash Aways because of its 30s cooldown. Jump saves your location upon cast as the "origin" you return to after the animation. If you time Jump for the exact moment after the knockback for Wash Away happens (when you've only been knocked back a few pixels), your "origin" will be right next to the hand, so after the jump you return right to the hand with absolutely no uptime lost. Save elusive jump and SSD to return, though, for when you invariably mess it up because even after 2 weeks of practice I can still only get it perfect 1/4-1/3 of the time because the knockback happens so fast.

With these high accuracy caps, isn't the body pretty much a must?

Haven't done savage but plan to. Only bought wep so far, and I have i190 body and i180 legs. I'm thinking I can go legs this week, and chest next week?

"In A3S, when I started out doing the normal rotation (HT-IDC4-P-TTT4-Repeat) I found that at ~620 Skillspeed (2.4s GCD), at the phase change from "human" form into a hand, my Disembowel would go off without the damage or the debuff almost every time.

HT - IDC4 - TTT4- P - Repeat"


I've been able to get the Disembowel in before the change, but it still throws off the numbers. What I do is wait the 1.5 secs with Disembowel procked, this way I don't have to clip or worry about the debuff falling off. If you do PH after the 4 the combo I don't know you will still get the B4B buff on it.

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Originally Posted by TheKingSlayer

"In A3S, when I started out doing the normal rotation (HT-IDC4-P-TTT4-Repeat) I found that at ~620 Skillspeed (2.4s GCD), at the phase change from "human" form into a hand, my Disembowel would go off without the damage or the debuff almost every time.

HT - IDC4 - TTT4- P - Repeat"


I've been able to get the Disembowel in before the change, but it still throws off the numbers. What I do is wait the 1.5 secs with Disembowel procked, this way I don't have to clip or worry about the debuff falling off. If you do PH after the 4 the combo I don't know you will still get the B4B buff on it.

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I can "get Disembowel in" - my issue is that the animation finishes after invulnerability, so the combo still progresses but I do not get the debuff or the damage - similar to how you can start up a combo when the boss is invulnerable at the start of the add phase. When I try to hold Disembowel when I do the normal opener, it falls off a split second before the hand becomes vulnerable. Maybe this has to to with latency differences, I don't know. However, I do know that I get B4B on that Phlebotomize.

EDIT: Maybe your scholar uses selene during this phase? Ours prefers Eos

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Originally Posted by Bloodborn8

I can "get Disembowel in" - my issue is that the animation finishes after invulnerability, so the combo still progresses but I do not get the debuff or the damage - similar to how you can start up a combo when the boss is invulnerable at the start of the add phase. When I try to hold Disembowel when I do the normal opener, it falls off a split second before the hand becomes vulnerable. Maybe this has to to with latency differences, I don't know. However, I do know that I get B4B on that Phlebotomize.

EDIT: Maybe your scholar uses selene during this phase? Ours prefers Eos

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Just use double Impulse Drive, thats my way. BotD dont fall off and combo neither. Spam click on enemy list and in the same time Disembowel when the boss return vulnerable, thats work for me.

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Originally Posted by TheKingSlayer

[I've been able to get the Disembowel in before the change, but it still throws off the numbers. What I do is wait the 1.5 secs with Disembowel procked, this way I don't have to clip or worry about the debuff falling off. If you do PH after the 4 the combo I don't know you will still get the B4B buff on it.

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You can get disembowel on before the shift long as latency is good. Also if you can't, why hold disembowel? Why not just use ID twice, Instead of sitting there not doing anything with your disembowel for 2 seconds? I also change my whole opener just for A3. Works out pretty nicely. Plus allows me to get full use out of GK, and allows for 4-5 GK on double hands.

I just repeat Impulse Drive, myself.

Anyone have an updated solver that still has some of the older food options like the 2star stuff?

Ariyala seems to be missing some of the food I could potentially use and some of those higher food options I can't make and/or won't buy since my group is barely progressing on A1 Savage if we even run at all... I can make 3star food but I'd really like to avoid making that stuff.

I'm not sure what to upgrade now so I'd like to see my choices while being able to set the skill speed and accuracy requirements, and then knowing what food will balance it out without being overkill.

For reference I currently have full normal Alexander gear + Esoterics weapon and ring.

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Originally Posted by PaiiNx

Just use double Impulse Drive, thats my way. BotD dont fall off and combo neither. Spam click on enemy list and in the same time Disembowel when the boss return vulnerable, thats work for me.

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I did consider a double ID, but the way I saw it, a raw Phlebotomize is 410 potency. Compare this to an ID buffed by HT and Dis, which is 227.7 Potency. In addition, this allows me to move Phlebotomize deeper into my rotation, which loses fewer ticks as a result of the phase change.

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Originally Posted by Hakmatic

You can get disembowel on before the shift long as latency is good. Also if you can't, why hold disembowel? Why not just use ID twice, Instead of sitting there not doing anything with your disembowel for 2 seconds? I also change my whole opener just for A3. Works out pretty nicely. Plus allows me to get full use out of GK, and allows for 4-5 GK on double hands.

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Mind my asking how you change your opener? I didn't use any oGCDs after Phleb, and rather just used the "Advanced Opener" upon doing HT, with an appropriate switch of LS/GK and DFD because VT comes earlier this way.

Or you do H IDC4 P TTT4 -> H TTT4 P IDC4 -> and repeat H TTT4 P IDC4... It means you have TTT4 combo for phase change and won't get screwed by a DIS or CT not being logged on Jigglybutt and don't need to delay your GCD by 1 second either....

There's other benefits as well, but I'm not in the position to discuss them yet until I've finalised some stuff. I think a few people will know what I'm talking about.

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Originally Posted by Bloodborn8

Mind my asking how you change your opener? I didn't use any oGCDs after Phleb, and rather just used the "Advanced Opener" upon doing HT, with an appropriate switch of LS/GK and DFD because VT comes earlier this way.

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I use the basic opener for a3, with botd placed before ct. I get 3 GK before form shift. I land Dis before the swap ,finish ct, pop phle, refresh ht at 6 seconds right there. Proceed with normal rotation using botd again right before full thurst, use one GK in the second b4b, then save the next 5 for double hands so I get all 9 GKs before adds. That double potency ^^ also you may not get all5 on both, sometimes just 4 then the 5th on single. May not be the most optimal as I just recently switched back to drg, but I'm holding 1400+ at the end of hands and finished the fight last week right at 1200, could Prolly do 1230ish or more with no Fuck ups with my current gear.

Also one of the GKs maybe 2 will be buffed on double hands with 3rd b4b. Edit to clarify, you dont always get 9 GKs, sometimes just 8, its really really tight.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Uh... Are you sure you actually missed, or it wasn't a case where you attacked the mob and casted a skill which executed after it died, forcing ACT to mark it as a miss?. Our Monk runs 587 Accuracy and has never missed.

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yes, i am on ps4, so i dont have ACT, and i saw a big giant "MISS" on the add's head, and ACT also marked that as miss too
well, it's not happening allll the time, only very rarely

when should i use my jumps when they are back up? and how about leg sweep

Dervy...your hat...I can't stop staring.

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Originally Posted by Hakmatic

I also change my whole opener just for A3. Works out pretty nicely. Plus allows me to get full use out of GK, and allows for 4-5 GK on double hands.

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I'm working on changing mine too..I find I was using GK between VP and FT in opener but finding I can't get off as many GKs as I am holding it so BoTD doesn't drop off when boss changes to a hand. My pop it after combo 1 and see how that goes

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Originally Posted by RachaelMarie22

I'm working on changing mine too..I find I was using GK between VP and FT in opener but finding I can't get off as many GKs as I am holding it so BoTD doesn't drop off when boss changes to a hand. My pop it after combo 1 and see how that goes

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You can actually let BotD drop every phase change as it will be up before you can hit the boss again. If you keep BotD up say from first phase transitioning into hand phase, that means you're only hitting the boss with 2 Geirskoguls when you can just blow a third before hand phase and have BotD off cool down for the next phase.

H - ID(BotD)C - 4th(Geir) - P -TTT - 4th - H - IDC - 4th - TTT - 4th(Geir) - P - IDC- 4th(Geir)
BotD drops off, boss changes into hand, BotD comes off cool down before you can hit the hand.

So with full Alex gear, I'm currently at 629 ACC and that horrid 642 SS. I will be getting the Esoterics pants would be my next buy. SS will be at 625, but drops to 575 (605 with HQ Steamed Catfish). Should I buy the Eso ring as well or hold off for Eso Chest and another accessory in two weeks? I'm still working on A1 Savage clear.

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Originally Posted by ChaoticDarkGriever

So with full Alex gear, I'm currently at 629 ACC and that horrid 642 SS. I will be getting the Esoterics pants would be my next buy. SS will be at 625, but drops to 575 (605 with HQ Steamed Catfish). Should I buy the Eso ring as well or hold off for Eso Chest and another accessory in two weeks? I'm still working on A1 Savage clear.

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I'm getting pants this week, chest in 2, then depending on progress/drops will get hands+ring then head+bracelet after. Best upgrade path I've been able to come up with without screwing up acc/sksp in the process.

How do dragoons fare in A2S? I've noticed a lot of phases are basically AOE burn, but I guess AOE is not really an option for so many waves in such a long fight with little TP relief. Is it better for us to focus down specific enemies instead of joining the clusterfudge?

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Originally Posted by ColdestHeaven

How do dragoons fare in A2S? I've noticed a lot of phases are basically AOE burn, but I guess AOE is not really an option for so many waves in such a long fight with little TP relief. Is it better for us to focus down specific enemies instead of joining the clusterfudge?

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The only AoE you're pretty much entitled to is when you hit multiple enemies with Geirskoguls and DfDs. Dragoon's main role is, imo, to burst down specific targets (Hardmind/helm, gobwidows, gobwalkers, Jagd dolls).

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Originally Posted by ColdestHeaven

How do dragoons fare in A2S? I've noticed a lot of phases are basically AOE burn, but I guess AOE is not really an option for so many waves in such a long fight with little TP relief. Is it better for us to focus down specific enemies instead of joining the clusterfudge?

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Originally Posted by Orlandeu

The only AoE you're pretty much entitled to is when you hit multiple enemies with Geirskoguls and DfDs. Dragoon's main role is, imo, to burst down specific targets (Hardmind/helm, gobwidows, gobwalkers, Jagd dolls).

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yea, or, u drive the gobwalker, which is what im doing, but when i think abt it afterwards, maybe the monk shud be the one driving gobwalker, cuz i have piercing debuff for the bard too..

but at this point i'm too afraid to ask the team to adjust this (currently at the last wave of A2)

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Originally Posted by Orlandeu

The only AoE you're pretty much entitled to is when you hit multiple enemies with Geirskoguls and DfDs. Dragoon's main role is, imo, to burst down specific targets (Hardmind/helm, gobwidows, gobwalkers, Jagd dolls).

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Thanks, good to know.

We started out with MNK on walker but they do have slightly better sustainable AoE and I think the group is wanting me to run machine. I don't care, whatever gets it done, but being on ps4 w/ controller it's absolutely terrible trying to select enemies (in particular bombs in this fight) in a big group. So I'm not looking forward to it lol

Guys I want ask a question. We cleared A1s but dps was like blm mnk and I as drg 80 dps behind the mnk. But I cast lb3 and lb 1 on oposite bosses and died to laser after lb1 at the end. Do you think that it can be reason of drop 80 dps? Thanks for opinion and sorry for my english

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

We started out with MNK on walker but they do have slightly better sustainable AoE and I think the group is wanting me to run machine. I don't care, whatever gets it done, but being on ps4 w/ controller it's absolutely terrible trying to select enemies (in particular bombs in this fight) in a big group. So I'm not looking forward to it lol

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Hi-five for Gobbyslaves!

L1 and up or down to select bomb from enemy list. I'm on PS4 and I've doing well with it. The 8th phase sucks cause there are more mobs so bomb won't show up on enmity list. I tell group to stack all together on a spot to minimize drops in the crowd. Worse comes to worse whm fluid aura can knock it out during that phase.

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Originally Posted by fonfonmaru

when should i use my jumps when they are back up? and how about leg sweep

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Yes. Use your jump attacks and Leg Sweep as soon as they come off of cooldown, unless you need to save a jump (SSD or DFD) in order to leap across the field at a predictable moment. Also, there are some rare instances when you may want to save your stun attacks (SSD or Leg Sweep) for key moments. For example, the adds in A3 can be stunned to slow their movement towards the edge of the field.

Our NIN is controlling the Gobbiewalker (or Fun thing as we like to call it). My group just hit A2S yesterday after finally getting the clear as a group - Prior to that we cleared A1S with 6/8 members. Still it looks fun :D Reminds me a lot of T4.

In regards to gear, i went with boots and will get the neck as soon as i finish capping for this week (already have weapon and belt), I found that getting the chest or legs put me too much out of either acc or ss so opted for too much of either or both over too less. I know food is an option but our cook hasn't gotten up to level yet and its rather expensive especially while we're learning fights. Means i'll have to save for another 2 weeks before i get the smexy chest though :/ Although i did get lucky and got the Gord Ring...that might change things up a little - haven't looked yet :O

Should I save legsweep and Jumps for Disembowel? Like if I just killed a mob and I'm running to the next, and Jump and Leg are the only oGCD ready, should I use them as soon as I can, or wait for ID>Dis first for the 10%?

Is there such a thing as a skill speed cap?

Because I'm currently using skill speed food for raiding and I'm afraid I might be capped.

Is there a raid food with focus on critical rate?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3036774