When are we supposed to stop fighting?

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

Oh god the whataboutism.

Maybe the game is saying many of the things mentioned aren’t right or good!

And maybe some of those things aren’t good comparisons.

Once again Kizuya you have yet to show any evidence that the primals in Eden were anything but arcane entities so either do so or argue that arcane entities are the same as ensouled ones.

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You specifically stated the Lykaons. Do you have a citation that the Lykaons had souls or were they also just arcane entities. Based on your logic it doesn’t matter if it has a soul or not, cruelty is cruelty. If you’re going to apply that logic to the ancients you had better apply it to the sundered. You can label it as whataboutism all you want, in the end it’s just the fact that people are willing to play the double standard game in favor of the sundered than the ancients, since some people seem to feel the need to look for every single little flaw they can find when the sundered do far worse lmao. So please EaraGrace, either give me a citation that they have souls, otherwise they’re just random creations, who even if they did have souls, would be no different than wild animals, of which are put down everyday both irl and in the sundered world, or again, like i said, used for entertainment by some horrible people in Uldah.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

Little comfort to the Lykaons, who were made that way by a researcher, potential for no reason other than vanity, and now must be killed. They had to be, that I agree, but that doesn’t change the innate cruelty of it all.

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Were mistakes made? Yeah, maybe so, and there were quests that said outright that distractions could lead to mistakes in the creation process. It doesn't mean it was "for vanity", it means they were attempting to make a creature that was meant to be a predator for the purpose of population control and made a mistake during the creation, which lead to having to unmake the specimens to protect the rest of the species, and to protect them as well, because much less cruel to be unmade than to overpredate and end up starving.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

Little comfort to the Lykaons, who were made that way by a researcher, potential for no reason other than vanity, and now must be killed. They had to be, that I agree, but that doesn’t change the innate cruelty of it all.

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Why assume malice on behalf of the creator? Even if they don't feel as strongly as Hermes does, there's no reason for them to have deliberately made the lykaons flawed in that particular way.

I wish we could have showed the endsinger another path and not just saved meteion prime but all of her sisters as well

Get 'robot that screams' vibes from Elpis sometimes.

https://i.redd.it/ho2zlmfkn2b01.png

'I've made a shark with two heads!'
'Why?...'

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

You specifically stated the Lykaons. Do you have a citation that the Lykaons had souls or were they also just arcane entities. Based on your logic it doesn’t matter if it has a soul or not, cruelty is cruelty. If you’re going to apply that logic to the ancients you had better apply it to the sundered. You can label it as whataboutism all you want, in the end it’s just the fact that people are willing to play the double standard game in favor of the sundered than the ancients, since some people seem to feel the need to look for every single little flaw they can find when the sundered do far worse lmao. So please EaraGrace, either give me a citation that they have souls, otherwise they’re just random creations, who even if they did have souls, would be no different than wild animals, of which are put down everyday both irl and in the sundered world, or again, like i said, used for entertainment by some horrible people in Uldah.

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https://i.imgur.com/0amf1YQ.jpg

I expect my thank you in letter form please.

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Originally Posted by tokinokanatae

Why assume malice on behalf of the creator? Even if they don't feel as strongly as Hermes does, there's no reason for them to have deliberately made the lykaons flawed in that particular way.

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To the Ancients, creation is both a service to the star and an act of expression. I don’t believe their creator had I’ll intent, what I do believe after spending time in Elpis and talking with researchers about creations, is that the Ancients have taken to looking at creations as nothing more creative pursuits, prone to making things based on fads or temporary interests, and in so doing needlessly creating beings that are doomed to die.

Behemoths after all only can cast meteor because someone thought it’d be neat.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Get 'robot that screams' vibes from Elpis sometimes.

https://i.redd.it/ho2zlmfkn2b01.png

'I've made a shark with two heads!'
'Why?...'

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This just sums it up really.

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Originally Posted by _Koneko_

I wish we could have showed the endsinger another path and not just saved meteion prime but all of her sisters as well

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There are definitely other path. All the species in Death end, none of them reach true perfection but they went astray in pursuing their own view of perfection.

The flaw in Meterion logic is not fault of Meterion but her creator, Hermes, despite being more knowledgeable in dynamis, he have not foreseen the negative impact on Meterion. He never prepare Meterion to process all those complicated emotion.

Instead of helping her cope with it he cast her away. The doom of Meterion have already been seal when Hermes neglected her and send her to a mission she wasn’t prepared for

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

To the Ancients, creation is both a service to the star and an act of expression. I don’t believe their creator had Ill intent, what I do believe after spending time in Elpis and talking with researchers about creations, is that the Ancients have taken to looking at creations as nothing more creative pursuits, prone to making things based on fads or temporary interests, and in so doing needlessly creating beings that are doomed to die.

Behemoths after all only can cast meteor because someone thought it’d be neat.

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first there was a shark phase then a snake phase and now everything has to fly.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

Behemoths after all only can cast meteor because someone thought it’d be neat.

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And that someone was us, so I’m not sure that proves your point…?

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

https://i.imgur.com/0amf1YQ.jpg

I expect my thank you in letter form please.



To the Ancients, creation is both a service to the star and an act of expression. I don’t believe their creator had I’ll intent, what I do believe after spending time in Elpis and talking with researchers about creations, is that the Ancients have taken to looking at creations as nothing more creative pursuits, prone to making things based on fads or temporary interests, and in so doing needlessly creating beings that are doomed to die.

Behemoths after all only can cast meteor because someone thought it’d be neat.



This just sums it up really.

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Why a thank you?If we sent a thank you letter to people who provided citations then you'd owe Lauront 20+ letters lmao. Again, all this means is that they’re similar to animals. Which, as i’ve stated again and again, are constantly treated in forms of cruelty both in the sundered world and according to you the ancient world. Your logic is inherently flawed. You continue bashing the ancients for creating creations that were doomed to die when we do the exact same thing time and time again. Either acknowledge that both sides are in the wrong for this, or neither lol. You can’t choose one over the other. Rest in peace to all the sentient mochi we’ve battered over the years.

As far as their creations go, i see it all as part of experimentation. Their goal is the safety and nurturing of the star. They’re going to want to try and develop things as they go along. We see that their magicks can be a bit wonky at times and that can have interesting results, but we’ve seen the same type of thing like that with the sundered as wells