Lackluster Graphics in FFXIV

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Might really want to polish your FFXI memories a little. Try to remember Bastok. It was basically the same as Limsa. Actually even much worse, due to the much smaller presence of water and vegetation.

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I remember Bastok and its "greys" indeed but like you'll see in this image, they are fragmented and merged with "whites" and other colors around:

http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/5/56/Nm02.jpg

You'll notice the general effect is different from LL and warmer indeed.

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Originally Posted by Sinzfeldt

Those cliffs still look absolutely horrible though.

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I wouldn't say so. They look pretty realistic stratified cliffs to me, and the normal mapping improves the visuals very nicely.
Sure they'd look even better with tassellation, but that kind of effect is probably too heavy for a MMORPG.

Maybe they're a tad too clean, and could use some weathering/vegetation (even if volcanic cliffs in very windy area actually tend to be quite clean, and limsa is a volcanic area, and very windy).
But as I already said that's a matter of art direction, not of quality of the graphics.

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Originally Posted by Munba

I remember Bastok and its "greys" indeed but like you'll see in this image, they are fragmented and merged with "whites" and other colors around:

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That's an extremely zoomed out image (that I believe couldn't even be seen in game from that perspective. Might be wrong, but I'm 99% sure). Looking with a nearer perspective the grey was very, very strong.
I actually find limsa quite a lot warmer, thanks to the the use of a lot of dark wood (which is actually used in modern architecture to "warm" concrete/steel interiors that tend to be extra cold), an element that was pretty much absent in Bastok.

Mind you, even some areas of Jeuno that were designed much later than bastok were strikingly grayish and "clean".
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4109/...5567c876_o.jpg

Thing is though, no matter how many polygons you added to that cliff it would still look crap because the texture is low res as hell because of the crappy curtain LOD.

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Originally Posted by Sinzfeldt

Thing is though, no matter how many polygons you added to that cliff it would still look crap because the texture is low res as hell because of the crappy curtain LOD.

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That's why you're given the option to use the depth of field effect if you find it so much of a problem.
Most games hide it by adding distance haze (that normally can't even be deactivated) or by shortening radically the draw distance.

I'd rather have the minor annoyance of the LOD, but the extremely long (and quite spectacular) draw distance that the FFXIV engine grants, than not being able to see at an even remotely realistic distance like in other MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

That's why you're given the option to use the depth of field effect if you find it so much of a problem.

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Yes lets give players fish vision, that's a real solution to the problem eh.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Mind you, even some areas of Jeuno that were designed much later than bastok were strikingly grayish and "clean".
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4109/...5567c876_o.jpg

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And also in Jeuno that white/yellow in the floor 'softens' the general grey atmosphere. :D LL becomes a bit warmer only during the sunset and dawn, for obvious reasons.

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Originally Posted by Sinzfeldt

Yes lets give players fish vision, that's a real solution to the problem eh.

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Which is pretty much the same than adding the strong distance haze you see in other games (just as unrealistic as depth of field). The difference is that depth of field in FFXIV can be deactivated. The option to deactivate the haze in other MMORPGs is most of the times not present, because it would reveal extreme clipping in the distance.

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Originally Posted by Munba

And also in Jeuno that white/yellow in the floor 'softens' the general grey atmosphere. :D

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I disagree, that floor is way too bright and flat. Personally I find it the most jarring part of the entire architecture.

I much rather prefer thenormal mapped cobblestone in Limsa. At the very least it has depth and weathering (without even going to touch on the darkwood of the upper floor, which is way better wnd warmer, IMHO).

tastes, I would guess. And that's the whole issue. Art direction is a mainly subjective topic.

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LL becomes a bit warmer only during the sunset and dawn, for obvious reasons.

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That's the good aspect of grey, or similar neuter colors. They take on the color of lighting much more effectively, and sunset/sundown lighting in FFXIV is quite stunning (not as stunning as the glare that shoots in your eyes when you walk out of a doorway in full sunlight, but that's a different "stunning" effect :p )

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Which is pretty much the same than adding the strong distance haze you see in other games (just as unrealistic as depth of field). The difference is that depth of field in FFXIV can be deactivated. The option to deactivate the haze in other MMORPGs is most of the times not present, because it would reveal extreme clipping in the distance.

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I'd take haze over fish vision anyday personally, in some areas Cadaevre mire it really worked well. But the problem is that the texture detail distance really isn't that far so running around it is really noticeable.

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Originally Posted by Sinzfeldt

I'd take haze over fish vision anyday personally, in some areas Cadaevre mire it really worked well. But the problem is that the texture detail distance really isn't that far so running around it is really noticeable.

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Maybe I wouldn't take "fish vision" over haze (in fact i run with the depth of field deactivated, something tghat I can't do with games that feature haze), but I definitely won't take haze over the long draw distance.
The texture LOD (that's evident only in very few areas), is a small price to pay for a game in which you can see pretty much as far as you do in real life. IMHO.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

tastes, I would guess. And that's the whole issue. Art direction is a mainly subjective topic.

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Indeed. And i see your points as well.


Instead, speaking about graphics (technically) only, here are some bad points i noticed more:

- Water seems really not 'consistent' when you walk in it. Splash effect is very bad in the actual state and the whirls are too subtle.
- Trees (and brushes) are too much low-res, with too much 'tiny' leaves, so the upper part (with leaves) seems a sheet of paper, especially when they moved by the wind. It creates a strange effect of 'trasparency' between the leaves sometimes.
- Lack of building/trees/other shadows. It would increase the atmosphere MUCH.