Should healers now be allowed to play how they choose to play?

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Originally Posted by HoodRat

Iirc, she was kicked for having extremely low dps for a sch. I don't remember which thread, but she came in one of those older "omg healers have to dps???" threads complaining about it. People looked at her parses on fflogs and I think the problem is that she doesn't really learn when damage comes, she just waits for people to take damage then heals them more than she needs to. On the few occasions where she did contribute to dps, she rarely used cleric stance, if at all.

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700 dps, on the last parse posted to be exact after I was trained. No one asked me to dps before then, it was my first static and mostly my first regular experience of proper raiding before then. Never stood around my healing was about 30% overheal I think but my ACTIVE time was around 95% the other healeranted to dps. Whole group was learning at the time :) Just want to add here that I thought you were tolerent of people learning. Did you know this static was just meant to be a casual fun group? I was only told a week before I was kicked that they wanted me to dps. And truly was not aware that real raiders only tolerate dps sch

*sigh* I have mentioned this already once before in another similar thread but....

So SE publishes an official FFXIV magazine in Japan, and the issue for patch 3.4 came with the Eorzea Job Change Guide for healers (these are aimed at players that already have some experience with the other 2 roles and want to try out healing). And this is a page from it:

http://i.imgur.com/W18h9ho.jpg

the header for this page says:
Healers can DPS too
There is a merit to DPS'ing as a healer since fights will end faster. However, don't forget about about your primary role, so slowly get used to partaking in DPS'ing
it then has the following points:
1. look for a change to DPS
2. get used to cleric stance when DPS'ing
3. remember your DoTs when DPS'ing
4. don't forget your primary role

So yes, learning when and how to stance dance is part of a good healer in FFXIV and SE agrees. So stop looking for excuses to be lazy in group content.

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Originally Posted by Dsync

As I said, you're free to carry your lazy attitude. Just don't expect people to put up with it. They haven't already in your case. You have openly admitted that you don't want to try to put effort in because "it's not a real job".

I also love how you equate putting effort into something as being like real life work. Yep, when I put effort into standing up, man, that's just like the shit job I do.

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Errm think Ive said in several posts that I do when I can. But you have such a bad attitude about it, I was just geuinely wondering if you enjoy anything really. I mean, take a chill pill and let others breath, Im suffocating on your lack of tolerence towards others

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

I am more a "never compromise" I will always vote no to Kick a healer if the sole reason is the healer not doing dmg

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You clearly haven't seen the healers I have. My favorite one so far was in an expert roulette, I had a sch who did absolutely nothing at all except spam adlo and stoneskin on me the moment my health went lower than 100%. And, idk what it is about ARF, but every single time I get that dungeon without queuing with a healer, the healer I get will start spamming heals on me regardless of whether I have 90% or 100% hp. Sometimes they realize they don't need to heal me and just stand there doing nothing, other times they continue healing me when I don't need it. Idk why but some people here seem to think that's acceptable play.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

The next few lines from MoM also states something along the lines of, "When no healing is needed, it can be useful to weave in offensive spells." The game never states that your job is to DPS, but it does encourage it.

The only thing the devs have stated to my recollection is that healer DPS is not factored into clears for any content in this game. From HoN to the hardest raid.

A healer can look at this statement two ways: 1. As long as I heal and cleanse, we will get the clear. Or 2. Every single offensive spell I cast helps the entire group as it is damage that is unaccounted for when the devs designed the instance.

Tl; Dr The game makes it clear that if you're capable of more, then at least try to do more.

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That's pretty much exactly what I'm aiming for with my post.

In the end, to me it's important to teach healers that there are opportunities to optimize their GCD usage and that usually revolves around slotting DPS spells between their heals. But threatening to kick them for not bringing more to the table than they're suppose to? That's just asinine. Likewise, if a healer won't take the opportunity to expand past their role and cross their arms and threaten to kick you for speaking out against them? That's also just asinine.

I'm just really tired of the animosity from both ends of the spectrum. It's not always like that but there's enough stubbornness and ignorance on both sides of the coin that makes me just want to throw my hands up at it.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

That's pretty much exactly what I'm aiming for with my post.

In the end, to me it's important to teach healers that there are opportunities to optimize their GCD usage and that usually revolves around slotting DPS spells between their heals. But threatening to kick them for not bringing more to the table than they're suppose to? That's just asinine. Likewise, if a healer won't take the opportunity to expand past their role and cross their arms and threaten to kick you for speaking out against them? That's also just asinine.

I'm just really tired of the animosity from both ends of the spectrum. It's not always like that but there's enough stubbornness and ignorance on both sides of the coin that makes me just want to throw my hands up at it.

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I feel the same. I understand both sides and wish a compromise could be found. I understand why there are those who frown upon wasted downtime from their healers, but can't comprehend why any would get so upset about it to either initiate a vote kick, or abandon the duty themselves. I would only vote kick a healer if they are not performing their primary role whether they are or are not dpsing.

For the heals only crew, I completely understand why it can be difficult to go into cleric. If they say they are worried, nervous, personally feel they suck at stance dancing, and not comfortable, it ends right there. But to outright refuse because they are queued as a "healer" tells me they are deliberately ignoring half of their support tools. Healers in xiv are designed to support the group through heals, cleanses, shields, AND damage. Their compromise is to at least try instead of going AFK, or jumping around. That is insulting to the rest of the group.

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Originally Posted by imjustahealer

if more healers in FF say nope, im here to heal & only heal, then all this bs about doing 2 jobs would pass & i for one am more than happy to be a part of this revolution.

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Assuming the current difficulty didn't change. If healers refused to DPS, people would start replacing them with Black Mages and Summoner. Tanks have such absurd mitigation, the occasional baby heal would be fine. Better that than dragging someone along who just stands still. Fortunately, very few healers aren't willing to improve come Savage.

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Originally Posted by Feyona

700 dps, on the last parse posted to be exact after I was trained. No one asked me to dps before then, it was my first static and mostly my first regular experience of proper raiding before then. Never stood around my healing was about 30% overheal I think but my ACTIVE time was around 95% the other healeranted to dps. Whole group was learning at the time :) Just want to add here that I thought you were tolerent of people learning. Did you know this static was just meant to be a casual fun group? I was only told a week before I was kicked that they wanted me to dps. And truly was not aware that real raiders only tolerate dps sch

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This is a flat out lie. I checked your parses just now and neither Scholar nor White Mage boasts above 200. On your server, 700 would place you at 57th percentile against Refurbisher and 52nd on Lamebricks. If you were pulling that high, you wouldn't be nearly as vehemently against DPSing as a healer.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I feel the same. I understand both sides and wish a compromise could be found. I understand why there are those who frown upon wasted downtime from their healers, but can't comprehend why any would get so upset about it to either initiate a vote kick, or abandon the duty themselves. I would only vote kick a healer if they are not performing their primary role whether they are or are not dpsing.

Their compromise is to at least try instead of going AFK, or jumping around. That is insulting to the rest of the group.

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Compromise good word, should have used it myself, but do you see anything remotely compromising about some of the posts here? Saying that its interested me and now Im wondering how a compromise could be applied, any suggestions? And I mean, changes to game play cos some wont compromise if its up to them. Oh and must reply to that person calling me a liar do you realise I was talking of story mode? and I categorically am not lying cos I saw it with my own eyes but it may not have been posted publically, oh and my percentile is 63 just checked :)

Speaking of compromise, you don't even have to DPS all the time really. On my WHM, my three dots and no other dps actions account for about 800 dps at full uptime on a boss. If you just keep your dots up with three globals, you're doing soooooooooooo much more than if you physic'd three times on a near full hp tank, or just stood there for three globals.

But a healer not DPSing is kinda like a DPS class only kinda doing their rotation. You would be mad at a BLM for only using ice spells and doing less than half the DPS they should be doing and making the dungeon take 30 minutes instead of 15, so people have a right to be mad at a healer who can't put in the *slightest* bit of effort into DPS.

Also, SCH specific, Eos can solo heal literally every dungeon in the game. Not dpsing on scholar specifically is the most gigantic waste. The only time Eos can't solo heal is when tanks pull 2-3 packs, which is frequent, but do you know why they pull 2-3 packs? Because damage is so low that they can. Same reason why healers DPS.