We should have a "Lance mage", "Ninja Sword mage", "Fist mage"

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Originally Posted by Aiselia

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I have both MCH and BRD at 60 and ilvl185. WM/GB are just fine, SE just needs to clean up the flow of the abilities in BRD to make it feel less clunky. Right now GB feels natural to MCH's play style and abilities while WM feels tacked onto the BRD. BRD just needs some quality of life adjustments to make the flow of the job feel better. In general, I think WM/GB are great systems and they do not impede on mobility as many people want to lead you to believe. Its still easy to move around and be efficient at DPS at the same time. They are not going away, so people should really get use to it or offer criticism on how WM/GB itself can be improved.

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Originally Posted by Aiselia

Then summarize it.

It shouldn't be that hard if you read everything. There's a few things that stick out in common, actually.

"I read it and you're wrong" isn't a summary.

And you can skip the personal attacks. I honestly don't care if you think I'm whining because I don't believe you've even read even a single one of my actual complaints about the new Bard style, much less all of them. And I don't care if you think I'm incompetent because you've never played with me, so I know what I'm capable of a lot better than you. So if you can kind of stay relevant to the actual subject, that'd be nice.



I don't think you realize that I'm not talking about Bard DPS, and I don't think you realize that the more you mention a rotation in respect to Bards, the less it looks like you know anything about Bards.

Bards aren't built around rotations. They're built around reactions.

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http://discourse-cdn.global.ssl.fast...fe12eeecf9.jpg

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Originally Posted by Velhart

SE just needs to clean up the flow of the abilities in BRD to make it feel less clunky.

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Which is what my complaints about it are based around, as I don't have any problems with the amount of damage that can be put out (yet). I've even stated specifically that the cast times themselves aren't the problem, but the way the cast times were just slapped onto a class specifically designed not to have them.

For some reason, people ignorantly assume that because someone doesn't like WM, it means they're talking about damage.

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Originally Posted by Aiselia

Which is what my complaints about it are based around, as I don't have any problems with the amount of damage that can be put out (yet). I've even stated specifically that the cast times themselves aren't the problem, but the way the cast times were just slapped onto a class specifically designed not to have them.

For some reason, people ignorantly assume that because someone doesn't like WM, it means they're talking about damage.

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WM not feeling natural on BRD is a valid complaint. Just saying this in general, WM in no way needs to go away, it just needs tweaking in the quality of life department, not necessarily a damage boost or decrease. Its actually quite the difference if you play MCH and BRD. GB on MCH really feels like (and likely was) built from the ground up, so it feels natural to have it. I simply don't feel the same about BRD in that regard.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

We had lance mages and fist mages in early 1.xx, didn't work too well.

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Curious, has any MMO had melee that cast as an important part of their damage dealing?

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Originally Posted by Tila

Curious, has any MMO had melee that cast as an important part of their damage dealing?

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Marauder in Swtor had a channeling melee attack

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Originally Posted by Velhart

I simply don't feel the same about BRD in that regard.

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I actually wonder how much novelty vs. routine plays into the perception too, honestly.

Like, as someone who mained a Bard for a couple years, you learn how to maximize your DPS by reacting to procs asap and how to properly weave things as much as possible. As a result, it feels like you're slacking if you watch a BL proc go by unused because you were too busy casting, or starting a straight shot cast the split second before Straighter Shot procs.

For someone who's not mained it and is just casually leveling it, they haven't had that time to really get stuck into the idea of how important it was to capitalize on BL/SS procs when they happen and as they happen, so going through to WM, they might not feel the same if, for example, they see BL procs get wasted while they're casting.

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Originally Posted by Aiselia

*Whining intensifies*

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You're asking me this because you don't even have any ideas what you said in your previous posts, don't you ?
What I read was "I can't move like I used to" : You don't need to move all the time, staying still is fine and you can still move while not wasting GCD skills, you're not even close to a caster in that regard.
"It feels clunky" : Actually the job is way more exciting now. Before, the rotation was boring, do the same thing, refresh and use some skills when it proced, now you have to see if it procs, use it really fast, you have other skills to care about etc. (Maybe I'm just the kind of guy who likes to play complex classes, I don't know)

All your complains are just what YOU feel about the job, so they are not issues, just things you don't like therefore not valid for a buff or anything. Like I said, you don't like it, don't play it.

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Originally Posted by AiiroOkami

Actually the job is way more exciting now. Before, the rotation was boring, do the same thing, refresh and use some skills when it proced, now you have to see if it procs, use it really fast, you have other skills to care about etc. (Maybe I'm just the kind of guy who likes to play complex classes, I don't know)

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As a former full-time bard main, I'd attest that your overall rotation (or priority list, whatever) remains the same during WM, and you have more or less the same buttons to press (you gain sidewinder, empyreal arrow and iron jaws, but you have one less dot to constantly reapply).

The bolded parts, you can't use those skills in the middle of casting, and the procs, both bloodletter resets and straighter shot can occur in the middle of your cast, especially the latter because of the shoddy hit detection delay. It's not complex; I'm not even keeping an eye on more things I had to before 2.0. The difference is that I'm looking at it reset and I can't do anything to use it immediately and potentially watch me get a double proc, wasting the first one.

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Originally Posted by AiiroOkami

Did it wrong.

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Nope. That wasn't a summary of my complaints at all.

And no, since one of my complaints is that thanks to the casting time plus the animation time, Straighter Shot procs after the GCD is up, allowing you to start casting Straight Shot before it procs, making it not crit and not be instant, my complaints are not just "what I feel" about the job. That is an objective issue.

Any more attempts, or will you just call it quits?

I mean, if you keep going, the thread stays bumped and gets more exposure and you stay in something that you've suggested is annoying you, which amuses me, so I win.
If you leave, I don't have to see you any more and the thread loses more people who don't know what they're talking about pretending they do, so I win.
I win either way, but one of the ways annoys you more. So I guess that way, I super-win.

Also, you're wrong about the class becoming more complex. Iron Jaws simplifies dot refreshing so much. Which you wouldn't know, being 53 by your own statement.

I also don't see how it's more exciting to have to wait 1.5 seconds to use a proc instead of using it immediately so that you may get another one to use in the same GCD, but then I don't expect much logic from you in the first place.