Would you like an in-game parser?

I'd imagine most people that are against parsers are very much aware that they exist, but not officially sanctioned. I don't want to see any officially sanctioned Parsers because I'm sure that it will bring out the absolute worst in people. People already use parsers to harass and shame others, I can't imagine how much worse it would get if it was officially allowed.

yes i would like one.

i'm sure this has been stated before but really, i think the best compromise would be to have some sort of privacy option if ever an in-game parser would be implemented.

like say, you can disable yourself from being parsed by others and it's disabled by default and there would be options for solo, party, alliance parse or just a number for the whole party/raidwide dps and/or it's off by default (only your own personal dps would be measured and you get no info from the party) on duty finder unless the whole party turns it on or something. put a BIG RED TEXT warning on the option to turn it on saying harassment due to the use of this is punishable by suspension or something and give people an option to right-click report someone for harassing someone with low dps -> this is different from politely telling someone to get better and offering advice/encouragement and such.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

I'd imagine most people that are against parsers are very much aware that they exist, but not officially sanctioned. I don't want to see any officially sanctioned Parsers because I'm sure that it will bring out the absolute worst in people. People already use parsers to harass and shame others, I can't imagine how much worse it would get if it was officially allowed.

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It'd be just like other games where they are legal:

Players who can't pull their weight get kicked out of groups, and then those same players complain on the forums that parsers shouldn't be legal. Everyone else lives life normally.

Probably said this earlier in the thread but I feel that a standard personal parser with premade groups being able to opt-in to a public one would be a fair compromise.

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Originally Posted by Jib

Yes it does exist and yes a lot of ppl use it.

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And yes, I can report anyone for using it if they think they need to use it to berate others. Which is only an option since they are not official and allowed but merely tolerated (as long as you keep quiet about your usage).

That's why I never want parsers that check the performance of others to become an officially accepted thing.

Personal parsers are completely different and I'm totally not against them in any way. No "opt-in" bullsh*t for pf though, since that would instantly just become mandatory anyway. Literally only one who can see your own numbers is you, that or nothing. Personal parser is compromise enough.

Why shouldn't people be allowed to filter out those who are underperforming?

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

Why shouldn't people be allowed to filter out those who are underperforming?

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If you played XI for as long as I and anyone else did, that question would never have left your fingers.

People do it anyway without the official sanction. All giving the sanction would do is make harassment sanctioned.

Kicking someone from a party for playing poorly isn't harassment.

I don't see the harm in having a personal parser you can toggle on or off.

More choice is never a bad thing.

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

Kicking someone from a party for playing poorly isn't harassment.

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Yes it is.

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Originally Posted by Inori-Yuzuriha

Yes it is.

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Well.. if it's a premade and they're party leader: They're free to kick whomever for whatever reason they want. Nothing is off limits. It's their party. Duty Finder is another story, though.

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Originally Posted by Inori-Yuzuriha

Yes it is.

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Really? I can't kick Ice Mages? I have to sit there and wipe repeatedly because of their incompetence? I can't kick Bards who don't sing songs? I have to put up them doing nothing useful? It's not like these are players who just need some quick tips, and they go "Oh, sorry" and get it together. These are players who are terrible and looking for a free carry. We are not obligated to provide them with one.

If a group just can't make a DPS check on a fight, there are two options:

1. Disband
2. Replace players

2 is preferable, and only possible if you know who to replace.

We've gone over this time and time again. Kicking someone for playing poorly is perfectly allowed under difference of playstyle clause. If the kick passes, you were the minority.

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Originally Posted by Daranion

We've gone over this time and time again. Kicking someone for playing poorly is perfectly allowed under difference of playstyle clause. If the kick passes, you were the minority.

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You are free to kick. You just need to hope that the player kicked doesn't report you and if they do, that the GM who investigates it agrees with you. "Difference of playstyle" is up to the GM's discretion.

The GMs have gone on record as stating that that is a perfectly valid reason to kick. Like this is an official statement. I wouldn't have anything done to me for kicking a 600 DPS blizzard wizard

Edithttp://s7.directupload.net/images/140813/h299ln6g.jpg

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Originally Posted by Enkrateia

If the concern is that this will be used as an excuse to abuse the feature, if our investigation determines that they did perform their duties in an appropriate manner and were kicked due to unrealistic expectations, then it could be found to be an abuse of the vote dismiss feature. A GM investigation will make the final determination about if the feature was used appropriately.

LGM Enkrateia

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Again, it is up to the GM's discretion.

and again, that still means blizz wizzes and lazy DPS that auto attack or spam a few attacks while watching netflix are kicked no penalties. It all works out in the end.

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Originally Posted by Daranion

and again, that still means blizz wizzes and lazy DPS that auto attack or spam a few attacks while watching netflix are kicked no penalties. It all works out in the end.

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If that makes you feel comfortable. So long as the investigating GM agrees, more power to you.

A personal parser would not be bad. If you know what numbers you need to shoot for it can help you improve and pinpoint troubles.

A public one, however, no. It would not go well.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

If you played XI for as long as I and anyone else did, that question would never have left your fingers.

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i didn't play it but since it's a totally different game, what is the relevance?

I do get why people don't want one that shows everyone's numbers but why not one that just shows my own. If I join savage or primals, people can see my numbers anyway. The only person who doesn't know is myself because im on console.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

People do it anyway without the official sanction. All giving the sanction would do is make harassment sanctioned.

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That's a jump to conclusions...
There are still rules in the Terms of Service that don't allow harassment.


A parser is just a tool, it's up to the user to use it responsibly.
A toxic person will be toxic regardless.

If they're harassing for any reason, parser or no, they should be reported and have action taken against them.

There are punishments in place for abusing the kick system, people still abuse the kick system.
People would be punished for abusing the parser, people still will abuse the parser.

I don't really see what difference it makes whether there was one or not, especially when I can just go download one right now. If people don't want their numbers shown then just make it an end-of-dungeon "well done" chart, like what you get for completing fixed group POTD or doing PvP. At the end of the dungeon it doesn't matter who did what, you'll never see these people again anyway...

Totally, not anyone would harasse other depending on their numbers. Being able to know my dps on this or this fight is so great for me to improve. Thank god i'm playing with pc's users but what if i wasnt ?
Parser rly is something we should have get since a long time now.

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

Kicking someone from a party for playing poorly isn't harassment.

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http://i.imgur.com/lslDfau.gif

On topic, I wouldn't mind an in-game parser that only showed my numbers.

Something that shows my current DPS, my strongest hit, and my Crit percentage like ACT does. Then after the duty is over, show my total damage dealt during the duty. For things like Ex primals and Savage raids, it would be nice to have a sort of "optimal" DPS number to compare yours to, so you can see if you need to improve, or if you are excelling. So, example: [Duty name] : [Job] : Optimal DPS: 1800.00. Or something like that. So one can say "Oh, well as a Dragoon, I should aim to do xxxx DPS or more in [insert duty here]." Since sometimes I wonder what would be "good" DPS in some duties. Even if my friends say that my numbers are more than enough for a piece of content, I guess seeing the comparison would make me feel a little more confident. X3

However, I only would want it to show just your, the player's, numbers. Not the numbers of the entire party. That would probably alleviate some of the "griefing" people think would happen if this became a thing.

Really, I just want to know my numbers for certain fights without having to ask a PC friend to parse for me (I play on PS4).

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

This is exactly why people don't want parsers in-game. This very attitude stinks of "I'm doing everything right, and you're doing it all wrong.". It's basically telling everyone that they need to do every little skill in a very precise order or they're branded as useless. To be honest, it's not a pleasant thought that every single player has to become robotic in their actions to be considered good at their job.

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Not to be that guy, but one doesn't even have to go for the very best min-maxed rotational effectiveness to maintain a good/decent dps. The case is, however, that a lot of people don't seem even capable of reading through their skill and trait descriptions. The synergies in and out between the two are in plain sight.


While I agree that toxicity is something we should not encourage or have fertile ground to nurture I do think it's not too much for people to at least read their skill descriptions. It takes a special kind of self-centeredness to enter party type content while consciously underperforming for one's own enjoyment. Just how exactly would it ruin the game experience for a person to spend an hour looking at their skill bar and managing their rotation and priorities?

As an example of (one of the) worst type of this type of behavior. There was a BLM in a dungeon, that refused to use any Fire skills, as he wanted to be identified as a wielder of Ice magic. While I respected his decision of roleplay, I initiated a vote kick as that kind of attitude is downright disrespectful of the people around you. We got someone who did his best and all had an enjoyable run.

As for parsers: I am pro-parser for personal parsers on all kind of content. Savage Raiding and everything including (subjectively) challenging DPS checks should have a raid-wide parser.

I don't see any difference to what we are having already. At the moment you get kicked for under performing but people are not mentioning it, they will find any other excuse so that if they are reported, it falls under the grey fine line of "players are allowed to kick you IF they have a different play style" If we make parsers official at least you could be honest when kicking players out of instances instead of the none sense excuses.

Once again, a thread of volunteers to fund yet another game development idea not on management's schedule. It's so heartening to see so many people with millions of dollars to just throw around on a whim to make their gaming experiences more ... immersive.

You guys and your generosity are a thing to behold.

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Originally Posted by Vamelo

Once again, a thread of volunteers to fund yet another game development idea not on management's schedule. It's so heartening to see so many people with millions of dollars to just throw around on a whim to make their gaming experiences more ... immersive.

You guys and your generosity are a thing to behold.

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I don't understand this post. People want a parser, or the ability to add a parser add-on, so that they don't have to spend hundreds to thousands on a PC to add one feature to their game play.

PC players just want to be able to openly share parses without the idle threat of being banned.

Does anyone know what the argument against a personal DPS meter is? I can't think of any down-sides to it.

I don't think a party-wide parser would really cause any problems either, honestly. Harassment won't be any higher than it is now - anyone that cares about it already has ACT. At least with a parser in the game the player that gets kicked will know why they got kicked and try to improve so that it doesn't happen again.

I am in the middle on this one. I used a parser in World of Warcraft. It was great to see my dps and where I needed to improve.

However, even running very easy dungeons people will kick a person if their dps is not up to par. You get kicked for not being where you should dps wise, at least where the other players think you should be. I'm not taking about apparently bad players but players who may not have as quick a reaction time as others due to lag. They get kicked very often even if the dungeon is very easy with all the bosses dying and no wipes. Everyone I know who plays wow only runs with guild members because the kick situation is so bad due to parsers. I'm in a wow fb group, and very often you see posts of people getting kicked for not having raid equivalent dps in just easy dungeons. It's at the point of being ridiculous. The addon support for WoW is amazing but it comes at a price. I came back to FFXIV because it's the opposite. Sure, would a personal parser be nice? Yes, it would. But I am glad that toxic behavior over dps is not allowed in this game. I make sure I play up to par but as a BLM I do not want to be harassed for dps if I am new to a dungeon etc.

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Originally Posted by AureliusDraconium

However, even running very easy dungeons people will kick a person if their dps is not up to par.

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The attitude there is VERY different. The only times I've seen kicks in dungeons for poor DPS is after we point out easy fixes (ie. "Hey, use Heavy Thrust for a huge gain") and either get ignored or yelled at.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Does anyone know what the argument against a personal DPS meter is? I can't think of any down-sides to it.

I don't think a party-wide parser would really cause any problems either, honestly. Harassment won't be any higher than it is now - anyone that cares about it already has ACT. At least with a parser in the game the player that gets kicked will know why they got kicked and try to improve so that it doesn't happen again.

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They use ACT yes, but you can be banned if you tell something "your numbers are low". You can be banned for parsing if you talk about it to others and they report you. You can use it, but keep it for you and your friends/static.

A official one can be used to harras "in the safe way" (means you cannot get banned). That's essential de differnece. I don't want it, because I don't want see people kicking other form Satasha becasue his DPS should be 40, and he is doing 39.

It is not a exageration, this will happend. 100% sure of it.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

They use ACT yes, but you can be banned if you tell something "your numbers are low". You can be banned for parsing if you talk about it to others and they report you. You can use it, but keep it for you and your friends/static.

A official one can be used to harras "in the safe way" (means you cannot get banned). That's essential de differnece. I don't want it, because I don't want see people kicking other form Satasha becasue his DPS should be 40, and he is doing 39.

It is not a exageration, this will happend. 100% sure of it.

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No that's exaggeration. Most I've ever seen is someone point out rotation goofs to help a person; most dungeons are so facerolly you don't need to push high DPS. No one really cares for DPS numbers in dungeons except if the check is harsh (looking at you, Vault). Even then people already yell if a DPS is goofing.

In what world will this give free pass to harass? Harassment is harassment, I don't see SE going "oh, they harassed using our tool... they coo' "

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Originally Posted by Frowny

No that's exaggeration. Most I've ever seen is someone point out rotation goofs to help a person; most dungeons are so facerolly you don't need to push high DPS. No one really cares for DPS numbers in dungeons except if the check is harsh (looking at you, Vault). Even then people already yell if a DPS is goofing.

In what world will this give free pass to harass? Harassment is harassment, I don't see SE going "oh, they harassed using our tool... they coo' "

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it is a posibility. If SE add a official parse, they can add to the kick feature the option of "Low DPS". I knwo a lot of poeple who will be happy with this... It is not the same study DPs for Static content like savage than Low level dungeons. No one should kicked never for DPSing. The duties who required it is usually Static content, an this groups are usually organized around this. I have no problem on personal parser for you, but party wide is the dangerous one.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

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A official one can be used to harras "in the safe way" (means you cannot get banned). That's essential de differnece. I don't want it, because I don't want see people kicking other form Satasha becasue his DPS should be 40, and he is doing 39.

It is not a exageration, this will happend. 100% sure of it.

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Everything I'd want to say to this post has already been said...

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Originally Posted by TaranTatsuuchi

That's a jump to conclusions...
There are still rules in the Terms of Service that don't allow harassment.


A parser is just a tool, it's up to the user to use it responsibly.
A toxic person will be toxic regardless.

If they're harassing for any reason, parser or no, they should be reported and have action taken against them.

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Harassment is still harassment and is not allowed.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

it is a posibility. If SE add a official parse, they can add to the kick feature the option of "Low DPS".

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It is also possible for California to fall into the Pacific. That isn't going to happen tho. That.... assumption is just completely irrational.

I think adding a parser to Stone, Sky, Sea would be a good start to test the waters.