Tank entitlement vs group entitlement

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

Sadly there is no min ilvl requirement in leveling dungeons which tends to be where gear matters most. You can go into Aurum Vale naked. I wouldn't recommend it, acid all over the floor and whatnot, but the game will let you.

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Naked chars in a dungeon filled with Morbol.. you just had to put that image into my head, did you now. :<

Okay I can understand that as it falls into the category of "hindering the run" if the tank is geared so badly that the healer can't cope. I did have some of these tanks back in ARR esp in Brayflox and sometimes the run had to be aborted b/c it was impossible for me to heal them.

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Originally Posted by Moshimoshikami

Stop lying to yourselves... "Bad player" or "Doesn't meet my expectation" is not in the list of the kick interface.

If you start a kick petiton because a tank pulls groups too small for your taste, it means you are lying when filling the kick request and that you are abusing the kick system, which is against TOS.
That kind of behaviour should not be tolerated by GM...

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half the things people have listed as "more valid" arent in the kick interface.

tank not tanking at all, healer not healing at all, dps auto attacking, not using cooldowns, wearing ilvl 200 gear in a level 67 dungeon. most people would kick for those reasons but according to you, doing so is against ToS and should be punished.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

half the things people have listed as "more valid" arent in the kick interface.

tank not tanking at all, healer not healing at all, dps auto attacking, not using cooldowns, wearing ilvl 200 gear in a level 67 dungeon. most people would kick for those reasons but according to you, doing so is against ToS and should be punished.

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According to people like Moshimo, players who are good are supposed to carry everyone in the game that's dead weight. God forbid you demand they do their job, or even worse, god forbid you kick them! Everyone knows 1 person is more important than the rest of the raid!

When did this game become a job; where performance was more important then enjoyment?

This seems more like a case of people taking a video game waaaaaaaay too seriously, and using the kick option in abusive ways.

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Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

When did this game become a job; where performance was more important then enjoyment?

This seems more like a case of people taking a video game waaaaaaaay too seriously, and using the kick option in abusive ways.

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People don't enjoy others wasting their time. The "it's not a job" is incredibly disingenuous. Very few people treat it as a job, but that does not mean that people should be forced to be tolerant of those they feel are making the game not fun for them.

Note: I rarely-to-never kick anyone, and when I do 99.5% of the time it is for a DC, BUT the "lol it's just a game bro" is so incredibly pants on head idiotic that I felt compelled to comment.

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Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

When did this game become a job; where performance was more important then enjoyment?

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The moment performance, especially low performance, is detrimental to the enjoyment for the majority of the party.

I don't think either side will convince the other side otherwise, since it seems like it comes down to whether you're the "I play games for FUN" type or the "I don't like wasting my time" type. In the end it's as it started, people will continue to think tanks have the right to do what they want and if they match up with people who don't believe that, they have the chance to be kicked.

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Originally Posted by Crystal_Raven

According to people like Moshimo, players who are good are supposed to carry everyone in the game that's dead weight. God forbid you demand they do their job, or even worse, god forbid you kick them! Everyone knows 1 person is more important than the rest of the raid!

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Honestly? I'm pretty sure that's the plan.

Do you remember Shinryu normal at launch? It was such good proof of this concept. People would disband constantly (or so the OF and Reddit claimed, I didn't see more than 2 myself) and that was because the DF had yet to give them a group of randoms with enough collective skill to clear. You'll also notice the people who were complaining the loudest about all the disbanding were... let's just say "not the best" players.

Point blank that's because skilled people were able to cart more of their groups over the finish line whether that's through good dps/healing/mitigation or a combo of the three. The expectation of the dev team is that the bit of the playerbase that approaches something resembling competence will be enough to carry the rest of these people to victory.

And we still get called tOxIc ElItIsTs all the way through.

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Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

When did this game become a job; where performance was more important then enjoyment?

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It's part of our capitalistic culture. A person is only as much worth as his work capacity. When he doesn't go all in he is "lazy" and has to be replaced with someone else.

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Originally Posted by Legion88

The moment performance, especially low performance, is detrimental to the enjoyment for the majority of the party.

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Your signature is a perfect example of that statement, which I agree on completely.

I can't speak for others, but I find that playing a job efficiently is quite fun. It's satisfying to see things melting in front of your eyes, no matter what job you play. When I mention efficiency, in case you guys want to exaggerate this once again, I don't mean "savage or 100th on FFLogs" level of performance, just the job at the best of your capabilities to get stuff done in a timely manner.