Why not abolish the Class system entirely in favor of Jobs? [@ Devs]

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Or you just develop the new job in an entirely independent way. The current class system doesn't, in any way, prevent them to develop new jobs in several different ways.

Either with a new class like arcanist/summoner, or attaching them to existing classes, or as entirely independent entities.

The restriction you see is imaginary and self-imposed.

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Entirely different way? -_- there are only two ways. You build it from a class or you build it from other existing classes. I have talked about both.

The restrictions are not self imposed. I have both suggested a new system with less restrictions and also suggested minor changes to the current system rather then replacing it (which would 'stretch' the restrictions a bit).

I'm not a big fan of the class system but, looking at it from a management perspective, removing or merging the classes seems to have a horrible cost/benefit ratio. Very high cost for very low payoff (no content added, complete rewrite of quests, lore, npc, battle system, etc...)

I think its way easier for them to keep rolling with it. For now.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Oh yeah that is possible but then lets imagine that class.

A dark knight but we dont want to make a new class (so lets say we use MRD (more damage-y then GLD)) and we change his weapon too (convoluted but possible). And we make the subjob THM.

He does have ok damage.. he does have spells - but what is he really? He is just a copy paste of other classes with 5 special abilities. He has nothing "themed" into being a dark knight its like if you made Dota in WC3 out of all blizzards spells instead of making your own unique ones each time. Yes sure X hero is assassin like Y hero but he has his own theme and feeling - impossible with this class to modified job system. Perhaps people like that, but I dont.

It would work.. it would be boring as hell less exciting (copy paste city).

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Well, not necessarily. I mean, let's say we have blue mage. What if that was a combination of, like, lancer and black mage? Or hell, it could even be set up like alchemist or lancer, who knows what SE would do! I think we have too many classes for it o really become boring and stale, as there are so many possible combinations. In fact, some jobs may even require three classes levelled. That would be kind of crazy though, admittedly. But with as many classes as we have, it can be handled so it desn't become too much of a copy/paste.

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

Well, not necessarily. I mean, let's say we have blue mage. What if that was a combination of, like, lancer and black mage? Or hell, it could even be set up like alchemist or lancer, who knows what SE would do! I think we have too many classes for it o really become boring and stale, as there are so many possible combinations. In fact, some jobs may even require three classes levelled. That would be kind of crazy though, admittedly. But with as many classes as we have, it can be handled so it desn't become too much of a copy/paste.

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Any job created with the current system would either require a new class or copy/paste from old classes :P.

But please tell me about your lancer black mage idea? I feel like you referenced Khimari a little :P

(keep in mind you have to add blue mage learning monsters abilities - as that is the core of a blue mage)

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Any job created with the current system would either require a new job or copy/paste from old jobs :P.

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Again, no. They would not. Yoshida already stated that nothing prevents them from developing new jobs in an entirely independent way if needed.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Again, no. They would not. Yoshida already stated that nothing prevents them from developing new jobs in an entirely independent way if needed.

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That is a change to the class system which has nothing to do with the current system. Also that is an inconsistency and rather for a lack of a better word "insulting" to the other "jobs" that got stuck with a couple of unique skills rather then a pool of them. Which as I said is a 'Ghetto fix'.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Any job created with the current system would either require a new class or copy/paste from old classes :P.

But please tell me about your lancer black mage idea? I feel like you referenced Khimari a little :P

(keep in mind you have to add blue mage learning monsters abilities - as that is the core of a blue mage)

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lol You could tell, huh? Yeah, I'm a Khimari fan. :P

Yeah, having BM and lancer would add some magic abilities with some physical moves via the lancer. The blue mage abilities could come later as job specific abilities. Just a thought. I think there's more potential and possible fresh courses to take to jobs than you may know.

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

lol You could tell, huh? Yeah, I'm a Khimari fan. :P

Yeah, having BM and lancer would add some magic abilities with some physical moves via the lancer. The blue mage abilities could come later as job specific abilities. Just a thought. I think there's more potential and possible fresh courses to take to jobs than you may know.

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Oh yeah there are more things then any of us can think of- even Yoshida (though he obviously has experience, time, and the ability to test them).

You could make it so one of the 5 abilities Blue Mage gets (in the current system) lets them learn new abilities. But then you are creating a class who not only has access to all of the thm spells (normally not allowed - not very blue magey... lol) also has access to all of the lancer spells (Khimari - love.. so ok :) ) --and-- access to all of the varied blue mage spells from monsters (sounds like what the red mage was in FFXI).

Just want to repeat - it CAN work.. it just doesnt seem like a fluid result. More of a "going to force this system to do what we want rather then design one that can actually do what we want".

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Originally Posted by Shougun

That is a change to the class system which has nothing to do with the current system. Also that is an inconsistency and rather for a lack of a better word "insulting" to the other "jobs" that got stuck with a couple of unique skills rather then a pool of them. Which as I said is a 'Ghetto fix'.

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There's nothing "insulting" about it. Other jobs get the whole array of skills of a class plus their own, plus the ability to be flexible. A new job developed independently would simply get their own minus the ability to be flexible.

Hello balance.

It doesn't change the class system at all, because it can easily exist together with it at the same time. It has nothing to do with a ghetto fix. It's simply not imposing to design resitrictions that simply aren't in place to begin with. Symmetry isn't required in MMORPGs, and "fluid result" sounds honestly more like a catchphrase than anything else.

Of course this is all just an exercise of imagination, as the current class system is going nowhere. I know it. You know it. Everyone knows it.

If they had the slightest intention to change it, they would have done so when they had the chance.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Oh yeah there are more things then any of us can think of- even Yoshida (though he obviously has experience, time, and the ability to test them).

You could make it so one of the 5 abilities Blue Mage gets (in the current system) lets them learn new abilities. But then you are creating a class who not only has access to all of the thm spells (normally not allowed - not very blue magey... lol) also has access to all of the lancer spells (Khimari - love.. so ok :) ) --and-- access to all of the varied blue mage spells from monsters (sounds like what the red mage was in FFXI).

Just want to repeat - it CAN work.. it just doesnt seem like a fluid result. More of a "going to force this system to do what we want rather then design one that can actually do what we want".

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Hm, I don't think it's as forced as that. Anyway, maybe I'm just lazy, but I think the system is fine as is. It may not be perfect, but Connecting jobs and classes this way is actually a unique way to do it. And it has potential for so many combinations. I just think we should roll with the system we have for now and see how things go. If a change is really needed, we can petition later for a patch, or something. Or maybe it will come with the first expansion, who knows?