Dark Knight Megathread

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The idea I feel like would be for it to act similar to Reaper's Enshroud, but instead of an avatar, you merge with Fray.

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With how reaper is basically damage Dark Knight, I'd try and keep dark away from this. Mostly because this is what reaper build towards and is sort of it's main thing. Having two edgy shadow classes with a big rage button is going to make it hard for either to stand out. Not that i don't disagree with making living shadow more interesting.

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The current bloodgauge should really not be a copy paste of Warrior's. Instead it could augment defensive actions

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With the conversation on blood becoming a defensive gauge I would ask if such a change would be pushing DRK into paladins shtick? DRK does the most damage and has to give up something, not that it doesn't do off tank help. If I could do any change for DRK it would make the get rid/change the blood gauge so it is not stolen from warrior but I would like to make sure that if it does we know what direction we're shooting for?

Life steal from other post in the thread talk about life steal, but functionally it's best served as a main tank like warrior for example. A gauge like this sounds like we're trying to be more of a support.

Which is fine but I think a good question to see what direction DRK should go, as it is currently DPS tank buddy.

Funny how GNB's dps is almost identical with us but nobody ever say they need to lose something.


Don't believe me? check the log site.

The problem is that right now you have:
A tank with 1 weave after every action which is GNB.
A tank with a gauge and strong attacks which is Warrior.
A tank with not many off GCDs and a static rotation which is PLD.

That leaves DRK with very little room for originality because designing a tank is much harder then a DPS. You cannot make the tank have skill speed or a fast rotation for example, because then where are they gonna weave in defenses?
I am gonna try and clarify my previous post:

->Delirium should be a combo of 5 actions similar to PLD's Confiteur combo, but instead of 3 actions, you have 5. You get Delirium at 68, so the main combo of the job is there in lvl 70 ultimates.
->Get rid of the blood gauge or perhaps turn it into a resource from which you can obtain health. Ex: you store blood by attacking/getting hit, and you consume it to heal yourself using defensive abilities. This fits pretty well because you heal from the blood of your enemies, and your own. This wouldn't push it into PLD territory because PLD uses the oath gauge to use defensive actions, and obtains said gauge by doing auto attacks, while DRK has to deal damage with actions to augment defensive actions. Different.
->Living Shadow could either be a buff similar to GNB's No Mercy, or Frey could just copy your abilities that you execute, oGCDs included. But it should no longer just do its own thing so you can forget about it. Its a boring ability. This is your only level 80 ability that you get from lvl 70 -> lvl 80. It should be interesting since its one expansion's whole worth of an ability.
->Bring back Scourge as a DoT. The downtime between bursts is very boring :( you have nothing to do other than your only combo. At lower levels you also have nothing to do than your combo and Edge. Getting this early would be good.
->Your DarkSide aura can barely be seen, while Warrior's is incredibly visible...why?

With these changes the level 90 burst would feel so much better with you using Living Shadow and then the Delirium combo, and the Living Shadow traits would actually be important and significant when Fray copies everything you do. You'd have something to do when not bursting and your bloodgauge would be different to PLD and help you survive a bit better.

There might be ways to make DRK faster in short bursts, though I guess this would cause disalignment for raid buffs, maybe.
But say that Blood Weapon grants Haste again, could have a heal attached to it, or a cumulative Barrier proc on all successful attacks during the effects. So during this period you are faster, so harder to weave, but you get a defensive effect with it

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Originally Posted by ItsUrBoi

You cannot make the tank have skill speed or a fast rotation for example, because then where are they gonna weave in defenses?

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This is only the case if attacks around which the defensives must be woven do not have flexible timing. Such is true, for instance, of Continuation (affixed to 3 consecutive CDs per rigid 30s), but not of Edge of Shadow, or even the second charge of Shadowbringer.

I think we're forgetting that making DRK -- one of the two tanks with the heaviest weapons and one of the two tanks with Spell actions unaffected by Skill Speed -- into a fast attacker is nontrivial in the first place.

And honestly, not particularly fitting either, unless they have a burst phase where they enter a delirium (which once again thematically overlaps with Warrior, the literal Berserker job).

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Originally Posted by The_User

Funny how GNB's dps is almost identical with us but nobody ever say they need to lose something.


Don't believe me? check the log site.

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thats because GNB got DRK's fast playstyle. SB blood weapon's haste was like continuation, add in DA and you got multi ogcd spam in between gcd spams. I wonder what other tank plays like that?

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

I think we're forgetting that making DRK -- one of the two tanks with the heaviest weapons and one of the two tanks with Spell actions unaffected by Skill Speed -- into a fast attacker is nontrivial in the first place.

And honestly, not particularly fitting either, unless they have a burst phase where they enter a delirium (which once again thematically overlaps with Warrior, the literal Berserker job).

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The Skill Speed - Spell Speed merge such would desire would already be 4 expansions late at this point. It should happen regardless.

And it's also the original (i.e., until Shadowbringers) design of DRK. DRK was the high-speed, high-apm tank.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

And it's also the original (i.e., until Shadowbringers) design of DRK. DRK was the high-speed, high-apm tank.

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Yes, keyword "was". It has since been outmoded in that regard, if it was ever fitting for the job in the first place.

Again, purely based on my own imaginings of the jobs, but if I had to consider the tanks most likely to be a high APM attacker:
1. GNB - How they attack is pretty much the only element of the job that has a clear visual thanks to FF8. They have one of the lighter weapons, a continuous combo and the ability to spend cartridges to propel the blade for quick swings. I'd also add them being the most mobile job just based on Thancred in the trailer.
2. Tie, depending on your standards:
- WAR - As I said before, "entering a delirium" sounds more like something a Berserker should do, and the point of axes in Ye Olden Times was the ability to build momentum with continuous movement. Ideally it would frenzy for a high speed phase and then "cool down" back to a naturally slow state.
- PLD - Also wields a light weapon, though it doesn't have fancy tricks like gunblade cartridges or a berserk rage to speed it up, just pure skill. Should just be slightly faster attack speed as a baseline.
4. DRK - Heavy weapon and magic. They should be the definition of powerful blows, not necessarily quick ones.

You could argue that it might be higher up on the list if you use Remake Cloud as an example, but even then he is the slowest fighter on his team by a mile, and he has to stance dance for higher speed swings.
And I don't think Cloud's a great example of combining the magic aspect, just swordplay.

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Your DarkSide aura can barely be seen, while Warrior's is incredibly visible...why?

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I think I can answer that actually. Back when we had HW darkside that was a permanent until we lost it, People would wear it all the time like tank stances. This cause a lot of problems with visual noise in cities when you had a bunch of people standing around glowing on the then new class.

So they eventually dimmed it down, and the same visual is used for current darkside which is only seen in combat.