What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

If you think Hydaelyn is still evil after all this, I don't know what to tell you.

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If you think everything the Ascians did was evil, given the fact that she set Emet-Selch aside, knowing what would happen from what you told her, then by extension so is she in part. You're basically complaining about what the Ascians did, ignoring all the context behind it. And sorry but if the Ascians are a "terrorist" organisation, what does that make her, who sundered their people and the star? Give me a break. You can blame them all you like. As per the Q&A, she enabled this, so if they're to blame, so is she.

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

And even if people still think Hydaylen is evil because of suffering, news flash, our real world is filled with suffering and its how you actually go about your daily life to trudge through the suffering to actually have a semblance of a pleasant life. Which is what Hydaylen was doing, trudging through all that misery for hope of a better tomorrow.

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If someone tried to lobotomise me or maim me because they thought my life could do with a bit more suffering, yes, I'd have a problem with that.

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

And even if people still think Hydaylen is evil because of suffering, news flash, our real world is filled with suffering and its how you actually go about your daily life to trudge through the suffering to actually have a semblance of a pleasant life. Which is what Hydaylen was doing, trudging through all that misery for hope of a better tomorrow.

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Yes, her introduction of en-masse suffering to an otherwise peaceful world is very much in line with evil given the context of the situation. Call it original sin, celestial schism, etc, what she did destroyed mankind's paradise, robbed them of immortality, all while positioning herself as a "supreme deity" when she was little more than a prideful human herself.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

You're basically complaining about what the Ascians did, ignoring all the context behind it.

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No I explained the context behind it. You are sticking fingers in your ears because you don't want to believe.

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And sorry but if the Ascians are a "terrorist" organisation, what does that make her, who sundered their people and the star?

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A person who saved the star and prevented their own people, the ancients, in future generations from being used as sacrifices to help power the machine that is Zodiark.

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she enabled this, so if they're to blame, so is she.

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Group of people who murdered millions of people across the 14 worlds VS person who created the 14 worlds. You going to side with the mass murderers on this? Fascinating.

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If someone tried to lobotomise me or maim me because they thought my life could do with a bit more suffering, yes, I'd have a problem with that.

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So if someone tempered you, would have a problem with that? So you would have a problem with the Ascians. As that is their shtick.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Yes, her introduction of en-masse suffering to an otherwise peaceful world is very much in line with evil given the context of the situation. Call it original sin, celestial schism, etc, what she did destroyed mankind's paradise, robbed them of immortality, all while positioning herself as a "supreme deity" when she was little more than a prideful human herself.

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Yep. Let's also not forget that she technically condemned multiple other worlds to destruction by not making the Ancients aware of Meteion's existence. Just imagine how many worlds were destroyed in the time between the Sundering and the present day - because by all accounts, Meteion was still sending energy out into the universe in an attempt to destroy all of existence.

(It's also hilarious to consider that Venat had an issue with the Ancients living peacefully behind the barrier that Zodiark created...but left the Sundered living in ignorance of the threat behind the barrier for thousands of years. Then when they beat Meteion it was after being carried hard by Unsundered entities.)

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

No I explained the context behind it. You are sticking fingers in your ears because you don't want to believe.

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Nah, you're not "explaining" anything, so lose the patronising tone. You're trying to list out the actions of the Ascians while ignoring what set those in motion. We're all familiar with what the Ascians did. You're not addressing the fact that she allowed for this.

She genocided her people and allowed Emet-Selch to escape the sundering while never being explained to why this was all happening, so she basically set in motion what would become the Ascians. Her goal in sundering the world has nothing to do with stopping the sacrifices as such, because they were not interminable; it is because of her belief that her people would end up like the Plenty, and secondarily, to enable easier manipulation of dynamis.

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Group of people who murdered millions of people across the 14 worlds VS person who created the 14 worlds. You going to side with the mass murderers on this? Fascinating.

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Worlds created through genocide of the ancients, yes. Let us look at it this way. If Hydaelyn rocked up in front of the Scions, told them they had to be sundered because, lo after all these thousands of years, she's now decided they're still too wed to the notion of improving the world through "better tomorrows", and not to worry, because even though this would end them as a species, more life would spring out of it, what do you think the answer would be? Maybe something like this?

https://i.imgur.com/zIOeuPv.jpg

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So if someone tempered you, would have a problem with that? So you would have a problem with the Ascians. As that is their shtick.

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If you're here to whine about the Ascians, go find some other tree to bark up. We're aware of what the Ascians got up to.

A society without conflict is boring and makes for a poor story anyway. Venat just did what the writers should've done and made them cease to exist.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

-snip-

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For the current timeline, the main timeline, to exist, everything had to proceed without interruption. Checkmate bub.

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

For the current timeline, the main timeline, to exist, everything had to proceed without interruption. Checkmate bub.

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You'd best tell her that:

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Venat: We must find a way to defeat despair. To unite and prepare as many as possible for the struggle ahead.
Venat: Heavy will weigh the burden of guiding this legion of souls...
Venat: Yet I have faith in mankind's potential. As long as he believes in himself, there is naught he cannot achieve. So I will not give up on him. On us.
Venat: You may find your world to be very different. Or perhaps the erasure of our friends' memories has sown the seeds of a conjunction between us.
Venat: We cannot know until the moment is at hand. So shall I strive to do my best, taking naught for granted as I walk my path.

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But by that logic, everything the Ascians do is essential and necessary as well.

Checkmate "bub".

At this point I get the impression you really aren't going to engage with any arguments and are just here to preach. Not interested.

A common sentiment throughout this thread has been that although it makes sense for the Sundered to do everything possible in order to ensure their continued existence, so too does it make sense for the Unsundered to the same.

I'm not particularly interested in entertaining the delusions of a self proclaimed 'supreme deity' by pretending as if the genocide of her own people was the only path forward. We can safely deduce that it wasn't the only path forward, since she deliberately avoided informing them of the threat that Meteion posed and toyed with their lives by standing back and allowing the Final Days to occur with no forewarning.

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

Technically you would have to put that as a fault of the Warrior of Light for telling Venat. As according to us, who was told by Elidibus, we can't change the events of the past if we want to properly return to our timeline. If Venat had done what you wanted her to do, there would be none of the people who currently exist in our timeline. There is no Thancred, no Y'shtola, no Ryne, no Alisaie, no Alphinaud, no Estinien, no Haurchefant, no Ser Aymeric. Among many other people.

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Sounds like a perfect paradise to me. No annoying perfect scions or annoying bratty twins? Sign me up!

Hydaelyn is evil because she committed mass genocide. End of discussion.