The Ninja Superthread

Jesus my dps is so low, I have no idea what I'm doing wrong. I know I do screw up my rotation once in a blue moon but even if my rotation goes without any problems my max dps on a dummy was ~700 or so. I'm in Law everything (unupgraded except for 1 ring and the weapon).

At this point I'm feeling pretty down about playing ninja now and might swap over to MNK or MCH.

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Originally Posted by VitalSuit

Jesus my dps is so low, I have no idea what I'm doing wrong. I know I do screw up my rotation once in a blue moon but even if my rotation goes without any problems my max dps on a dummy was ~700 or so. I'm in Law everything (unupgraded except for 1 ring and the weapon).

At this point I'm feeling pretty down about playing ninja now and might swap over to MNK or MCH.

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Did you forget to turn on your poison buff?

I did that for 2 rounds until i realized i was derping.

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Originally Posted by MysteryNotes

Did you forget to turn on your poison buff?

I did that for 2 rounds until i realized i was derping.

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My dps was actually around 600 without the poison buff. With the poison buff I was only at 730ish. Again I dunno what I'm doing wrong and I feel like I need to do a lot of practicing or just give up NIN.

Spam 123 123 123 and use your regular ninjutsu rotation. If you do more than your full rotation, I can probably tell you whats wrong.

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Originally Posted by VitalSuit

My dps was actually around 600 without the poison buff. With the poison buff I was only at 730ish. Again I dunno what I'm doing wrong and I feel like I need to do a lot of practicing or just give up NIN.

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Well, it would help if you actually posted your rotation so we could see what you're doing.

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Originally Posted by MysteryNotes

Well, it would help if you actually posted your rotation so we could see what you're doing.

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Basically this, because there's no way in fucking hell your rotation is right if I can pull higher than that in 145 gear.

730 ish is kinda quite low, even with hard mudra lag is kinda hard to get this :x
i'm kinda sure that even if we scraps AE from the cycle we can still get far better... we really need to see what cycle you use. ninja can have some insane damage in burst but the continious damage is not bad either, then 730 ish seems really really low.

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Originally Posted by VitalSuit

700 in full law?

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Huh? Thats not right... whats your usual ping btw? Is the dummy throwing AoEs at you or something O_o???

are your auto attacks recording properly

Maybe you are using an outdated parser too

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

Huh? Thats not right... whats your usual ping btw? Is the dummy throwing AoEs at you or something O_o???

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With pingzapper I usually have little lag, not enough to interfere with mudras at all but lately I've been getting the usual mudra lag as if I wasn't using pingzapper it was pretty awful in Alexander.

Question! How will a latency of 130ms affect my mudras? :(

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Originally Posted by Manu-Kesna

Question! How will a latency of 130ms affect my mudras? :(

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Enough that you should concider using Fuma Shuriken instead of Raiton.

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Originally Posted by Atreides

Enough that you should concider using Fuma Shuriken instead of Raiton.

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This. Anyways, the new thread is up per the OP's request.

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Originally Posted by Manu-Kesna

Question! How will a latency of 130ms affect my mudras? :(

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At 110~130ping here, usually.

Melee -> Fuuma.
Away -> Raiton.

So...after much self-shaming and coming to terms with the fact that I've derped up by not grabbing Blood for Blood earlier in my NIN career; am I ok to finish out the MSQs, hit 60, and then go back and level Lancer to grab the skill? Or am I not going to be able to finish the content without out for some reason? At the time of this question I've just finished clearing Bismark (story).

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Originally Posted by CodeCass

Should go for BFB now, or after MSQ

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Its not a must for story progress, so much... I mean, its just a 20 seconds window where you hit a 10% harder and has an 80 seconds cooldown (you also get smacked harder tho).

Utility wise its something that helps you, as a DPS, do better at your job :/
But at least get Invigorate D:

I'm playing with about 290ms of ping (Japanese server while living in Europe). In your opinion, is that bad enough that I should consider playing something else? Raiton already makes me lose about 1.25 seconds on my next on-GCD skill (so I pretty much never use it), I even notice some time loss with Fuma. Bunny isn't an issue, I've learned how to avoid it (at least with two mudra, I'm only level 41), it's just the time loss that bothers me.

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Originally Posted by Lise

I'm playing with about 290ms of ping (Japanese server while living in Europe). In your opinion, is that bad enough that I should consider playing something else? Raiton already makes me lose about 1.25 seconds on my next on-GCD skill (so I pretty much never use it), I even notice some time loss with Fuma. Bunny isn't an issue, I've learned how to avoid it (at least with two mudra, I'm only level 41), it's just the time loss that bothers me.

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You will lose some GCDs compared to other NINs with good ping. If you don't mind this I'd say just play what you like most but you should also try out other classes and compare them to ninja.

Ninja is by far the class that gets affected the most by bad pings.

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Originally Posted by Lise

I'm playing with about 290ms of ping (Japanese server while living in Europe). In your opinion, is that bad enough that I should consider playing something else? Raiton already makes me lose about 1.25 seconds on my next on-GCD skill (so I pretty much never use it), I even notice some time loss with Fuma. Bunny isn't an issue, I've learned how to avoid it (at least with two mudra, I'm only level 41), it's just the time loss that bothers me.

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Good god...

Play what you like, but really do consider something else. Something less affected by you ping. You can still play nin for fun while using something else for raiding. ( if you do that)

If fuuma is already eating on your GCD at lvl 41... you will not like how things get on lvl 45... and the skill that will help you aleviate this doesn't appear in your kit till 54...

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

If fuuma is already eating on your GCD at lvl 41... you will not like how things get on lvl 45... and the skill that will help you aleviate this doesn't appear in your kit till 54...

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This.

If Fuma is cutting into your GCD before you get Huton...you are going to have major issues playing the class. I would recommend playing a class that is much less ping dependent. I am only 50 but I imagine armor crush isn't going to help that much to alleviate the problem...you still need to use Suiton which you will be extremely delayed with that ping and even using Fuma with a 2s gcd if you have that much lag is going to be a detriment to your dps.

It really sucks that I can't play Ninja properly on PS4 because of its indefinite mudra lag. On PC, I can get near perfect ones, but there are still some moments where the servers say fuck you to me. Nevertheless, despite monk being my main, I need to get Ninja geared as an alt for raids.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

yeah, the ninja, the lone warrior, the shadow, the assassin.... have skill for help other but not itself. that one of the point that bother me a lot with the ninja.

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Did you even pay attention to the NIN quests? We assist others from the shadows, often without them realizing it. Hell, that was even clear when we were still ROG. And SE's done a good job with that so far. Goad, Shadewalker, Smoke Screen all much more behind the scenes than other support abilities. And we're not 'lone wolves' - dark knight takes that edgelord denomination. Ninjas don't seek glory or fame or fortune. We're tools to be used.

yeah a tool that must not be seen or get attention, but...we can't use our tool for reduce hate on us?
seriously is nice to take sentence like this, but read it is better, we work into shadow often alone. where i did say get glory? i have said the shadow, the lone warrior. they fit this idea to help other from shadow.... exept for be helpfull we need to remain in shadows....

what ninja can't really do. but well the point was to say, it's nice to add skill for help other, but not make this usable on us is silly. and anyway, this skill is redundant from Shadowalker that far more efficient, since our dps added to the tank hate will solve the situation most of the time.

oh by the way exept monk, all the other dps jobs have access to a skill for reduce them enmity or enmity generation. quite usefull to have this tool when other have it already.

PS4 works fine for me when playing ninja although I do have mudra lag on some occasions its never really been game breaking.

As far as the enmity tools are concerned, it would be redundant to have smoke screen work on us as we can transfer enmity to the tank with the other skill.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

yeah a tool that must not be seen or get attention, but...we can't use our tool for reduce hate on us?

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What do you think Shadewalker does?

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

seriously is nice to take sentence like this, but read it is better, we work into shadow often alone. where i did say get glory? i have said the shadow, the lone warrior. they fit this idea to help other from shadow.... exept for be helpfull we need to remain in shadows....

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Except that we aren't lone warriors, at any point.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

what ninja can't really do. but well the point was to say, it's nice to add skill for help other, but not make this usable on us is silly. and anyway, this skill is redundant from Shadowalker that far more efficient, since our dps added to the tank hate will solve the situation most of the time.

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Until the mob you're on dies and the BLM pulls hate doing AOE on the next pack in A2.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

oh by the way exept monk, all the other dps jobs have access to a skill for reduce them enmity or enmity generation. quite usefull to have this tool when other have it already.

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Because things that have 2-3 minute CDs are known for being up all the time, right?

So we reduce downtime to fill the gap of their personal emnity control. If you have a competent tank you never lose aggro. I use Shadewalker on beggining of fights and then maybe if i have cd's and we go into a burst phase. it converts ONE tank combo from a threat combo to a dps combo and all in all adds like 1000 damage NOT DPS damage to our group which is about 2.77 dps over 6 minutes. Its great really i dont think we would meet dps checks without my new emnity moves.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

What do you think Shadewalker does?

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you don't read, right? smoke bomb is redundant and a useless capacity, shadewalker is doing the same in better. shorter CD and with the ninja enmity it's easy to make the tank not loose enmity

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Except that we aren't lone warriors, at any point.

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we are a lone warrior, we are the scout, we like you say fight from shadows.... our goal is to get ride of the pest that can bother the other. a good example from the quest of the ninja, when we help yuki-hime to escape and pull the enemy far away and get ride of them.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Until the mob you're on dies and the BLM pulls hate doing AOE on the next pack in A2.

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you know that black mage have access to a reduction of enmity skill? from the archer.... like summoner and machinist.

you are defending something that are not good by design.... but well be my guest.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

you don't read, right? smoke bomb is redundant and a useless capacity, shadewalker is doing the same in better. shorter CD and with the ninja enmity it's easy to make the tank not loose enmity

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Because DPS never focus different targets, ever. Nevermind that this is totally a thing that happens constantly. Me giving one of the two tanks my aggro isn't going to help the BLM who's about to pull aggro on the other mob from the other tank. Sure is a good thing that the BLM used his Quelling Strikes on the last group of mobs when he was going full AOE! Oh wait. . .

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

we are a lone warrior

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Citation needed. Only rarely have we or the other NIN we know ever fought as lone warriors. Almost every time I've seen any NIN fight in FFXIV it's been as part of a group.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

we like you say fight from shadows.... our goal is to get ride of the pest that can bother the other. a good example from the quest of the ninja, when we help yuki-hime to escape and pull the enemy far away and get ride of them.

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Yes, as part of a group working together. Not as a lone warrior.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

you know that black mage have access to a reduction of enmity skill? from the archer.... like summoner and machinist.

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Nope, I mained BRD for a year and a half without ever seeing that BLM shows up on the list of jobs able to use Quelling, and then leveled BLM to get the relic without ever realizing that Quelling is one of the, like, 4 abilities BLM can get from cross-classing.

Sarcasm aside, you realize it's a 2 minute CD, right?

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

you are defending something that are not good by design.... but well be my guest.

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I'm not saying it's perfect or anything, I'm just tired of hearing people complain about skills being useless just because we don't yet have fights where they're able to perform to their potential (barring poor tanks or just plain gear differentials).

Thanks for your answers. I'm almost level 45 so I'll push a little and see how the 3rd mudra goes with that ping.
In any case, I think I'll have to make a macro and say something like "please excuse me for my high latency" every time I join a party :p Dodging stuff can also be tricky.

Update:
Casting fûton / doton / suiton with fûton buff: between 2.4 and 2.7 seconds loss.
Casting fûton / doton / suiton without fûton buff: between 2.1 and 2.4 seconds loss.

What's weird is that occasionally I get perfect queuing. It's just... Random.

Hey guys, I have made updates to my Ninja video guides.

Here is a link to the old guide (2.4):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjlmnKtGGbw

And the new updated guide (3.0):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqBBlq59pj0

Hey Firana!
Thanks for posting your video, though you switched to SMN.
Looked up to you a lot in your 2.0 NIN.

and to the Superthread, what secondary stat have you found best so far for NIN now that DET has been nerfed?
I still don't know what NIN should be doing with Skillspeed either.

2.0 was ACC til cap>DET>CRIT>SS, however in 3.0, I feel it might shift to ACC til cap>CRIT>DET>SS
I am no math junky, and don't have all the gear to test, would love to hear discussion on this.

CRIT > DET > SS is the 3.0 meta for nearly all jobs now.

Y'all remember that there's a new NIN thread, right? :p