No Arrows in ARR?!

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Originally Posted by Ruisu

Video games aren't art. They're something you play. Stop trying to make every hobby of yours deep and meaningful.

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lol

One cannot simply define what is and is not art.

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Originally Posted by Lyndis

3. If you don't think realism is a part of final fantasy you don't understand it.

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So if removing arrows is not okay with the game, why is not having to clean your blade after every battle okay? Why is it okay that my character doesn't become dead tired and unable to drag her body after fighting with a few dozen monsters? Why is it okay that my character doesn't need to eat, sleep, or drink? Why is it okay that injuries to my character don't permanently reduce my combat abilities, like broken bones and torn ligaments would realistically?

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Originally Posted by Ruisu

Video games aren't art. They're something you play. Stop trying to make every hobby of yours deep and meaningful.

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I hate to do this but you have no idea what art is then.

Noun:
*The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture,...: "the art of the Renaissance"
*Works produced by such skill and imagination.

Video Games practically jump right in the definition and call it synonymous home.

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Originally Posted by Lyndis

1. They're removing the need to stand at a certain spot for combos. Even that doesn't make a class feel different. Just because I stand in a different spot doesn't make a class feel different. It does make it play a very slightly different way. But we should still have a larger difference to class than simply where they stand. How they function should be different.

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Actually they said they're keeping the position condition for the first move but removing it for the rest.

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Originally Posted by Lyndis

2. Nothing is ever JUST about gameplay. There is an emotion evoked with each artistic piece placed into the game. How does music affect gameplay? Why is it so important for FFXIV to have next generation graphics? gameplay reasons? If they dumbed that down I'm sure they could manage some more unique gameplay. But they don't. I remember an archer that chose that class simply because the challenge that buying arrows brought. I've been interested in it myself simply because the variance arrows brought to GAMEPLAY. It's not JUST inventory -1 and if that truly is your only reason for REMOVING SOMETHING THAT'S ALREADY THERE (why change it if it's not broken??) then why don't they add a quiver bag??

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Challenge that buying arrows brought? Lol. I don't even know how to respond to that. Why change it if it's not broken? Because it's needless. The arrows currently serve no real purpose. There's no different ammo types or a need to conserve ammo in any way so they are indeed pointless.

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Originally Posted by Lyndis

3. If you don't think realism is a part of final fantasy you don't understand it. Yes it is obviously a fantasy. But there's a much higher quality to it than just smashing fantasy elements into one pot. I've seen games do that. Have you ever played Aion? Where they had Dinosaurs giant pianos and people flying around on wings in a floating city all with no real reason other than it's magic all within five feet from one another? Yeah Dinosaurs are cool and I'm sure people would love an epic giant piano. But just mashing it together because it's epic does not make art.

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Yeah, guess I just "don't get it".

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Originally Posted by Lyndis

- As for the arrow buffs confirmed by the dev. They're no different than the buffs other classes have other than maybe their specific effect and timing. They all enter the battlefield with a click of your ability bar the same as all the others.

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You have no way of knowing that. Also they're said to add effects to the arrows, much different from how other classes work from what we already know. If you're going to oversimplify the gameplay then every class in every game works the same. You just click buttons and stuff happens, enemies eventually die.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

So if removing arrows is not okay with the game, why is not having to clean your blade after every battle okay? Why is it okay that my character doesn't become dead tired and unable to drag her body after fighting with a few dozen monsters? Why is it okay that my character doesn't need to eat, sleep, or drink? Why is it okay that injuries to my character don't permanently reduce my combat abilities, like broken bones and torn ligaments would realistically?

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I don't think I ever did say these things are okay. As far as entering realistic things into a game it's a question of the engine's power, whether it would really detract from gameplay, and costs. I'm sure if they could make your blade bloody and your gear dirty everytime you fought something they would. Instead they insert repair costs. Lack of food and water not killing your player is a gameplay decision. How would you make hunger and thirst in a game? An unrealistic meter that shows these things? It'd be clunky unrealistic and a hinderance to gameplay. Instead they've made drinking and eating buff your character so these things are still realistically doable. Sleeping? Gives experience points bonuses. As for injuries: They could enter some debuffs to represent such things as breaking limbs. But representing these graphically and fitting them seamlessly into gameplay is cost inefficient. If they can enter all these realistic things into the game well they'd make a great game.

More on topic: Requiring arrows doesn't represent a huge hit to gameplay. Nor is it difficult to add. It was already there. If you're claiming it does remove from gameplay: I've already given simple fixes for what ways it could bother you.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

So if removing arrows is not okay with the game, why is not having to clean your blade after every battle okay? Why is it okay that my character doesn't become dead tired and unable to drag her body after fighting with a few dozen monsters? Why is it okay that my character doesn't need to eat, sleep, or drink? Why is it okay that injuries to my character don't permanently reduce my combat abilities, like broken bones and torn ligaments would realistically?

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why my char doesnt take a bath....

You can't really judge this change til you see how it effects the overall gameplay. From a realistic point of view you say yes one should need to stock up on arrows in order to use a bow. From a game point of view however you have to think that this is the only class that does that atm, so perhaps it should act in the same manner as other classes rather then use ammo just because it's an archer.

One could argue, well why not have arrows with different effects? Well the issue you run with this is that you cause a great strain to inv space for anyone who wants to play ARC. Sure you can say, I have normal arrows, 5 enfeeble arrows and arrows that lower recast time, 2 stacks of each and that's 14/100 inv used just for arrows, while other classes don't need to do any of this currently.

Time will tell how this will effect things though, one thing I imagine however is an ARC dmg output may be lowered since they themselves may be considered a melee class with safety in terms of how much danger they put themselves into. compared to other melee which fight from the front line and are most susceptible to the monster's abilities.

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Originally Posted by Lyndis

I don't think I ever did say these things are okay. As far as entering realistic things into a game it's a question of the engine's power, whether it would really detract from gameplay, and costs. I'm sure if they could make your blade bloody and your gear dirty everytime you fought something they would. Instead they insert repair costs. Lack of food and water not killing your player is a gameplay decision. How would you make hunger and thirst in a game? An unrealistic meter that shows these things? It'd be clunky unrealistic and a hinderance to gameplay. Instead they've made drinking and eating buff your character so these things are still realistically doable. Sleeping? Gives experience points bonuses. As for injuries: They could enter some debuffs to represent such things as breaking limbs. But representing these graphically and fitting them seamlessly into gameplay is cost inefficient. If they can enter all these realistic things into the game well they'd make a great game.

More on topic: Requiring arrows doesn't represent a huge hit to gameplay. Nor is it difficult to add. It was already there. If you're claiming it does remove from gameplay: I've already given simple fixes for what ways it could bother you.

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There, I baited the correct answer out of you. Now apply this logic as to why we don't need arrows and how removing them was justified.

Bows shooting arrows is implied by common human intuition. Having arrows as items is unnecessary and adds nothing of value to the game; and the use of arrows can be symbolically recreated via repair costs. The only difference between this game not having arrows, and this game having arrows, is having to do braindead inventory management.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

You are kidding right, you don't consider this art? That has to be the biggest joke ever!

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Ico is art.

Shadow of the Colossus is art

Some indie games like Braid are art.

I would not call Final Fantasy art. It's a great series of games, but it's not art.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

Ico is art.

Shadow of the Colossus is art

Some indie games like Braid are art.

I would not call Final Fantasy art. It's a great series of games, but it's not art.

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I'll just redirect this at you:

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Noun:
*The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture,...: "the art of the Renaissance"
*Works produced by such skill and imagination.

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