Dungeons are becoming style over substance.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Those weren't dungeons/instances. They were just zones with higher level mobs than their surrounding areas.

Sastasha was probably the best example of these as "delves", as mob levels climbed rapidly, iirc, as you went deeper down. (Again, not an instance -- just a zone.)

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iirc, 1.0 didn't have instances. Dungeons were just specific sections within the world

Why is this a bad thing? Anything that has a daily tied to them and is open for auto grouping to happen in should be quick and easy. All the negative things you said about dungeons, are a good thing in my book. So the question is. Why should it change? If it becomes harder, than that would mean it would be more tedious for many players, and you would have to deal with less skill players even more so having an even bigger impact on your time.

holy moly i have had these thoughts ever since i started playing 4 years ago lol... finally found like minded people!

anyways i wish we had at least optional harder dungeons because pulling wall2wall then fight boss has become so boring & stale... AND on top of all that as great as SHB was the dungeon gear was a absolute joke just pure lazy reskinned garbage and the lack of sin eater themed armor/weapons was bad too, that broke my heart.

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Originally Posted by REPROBEAN_CHILD

iirc, 1.0 didn't have instances. Dungeons were just specific sections within the world

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It had instances. Totorak, Aurum Vale, Cutter's Cry, Dzmael Darkhold, etc., were all instances. You walked through a barrier, got a loading screen, and could not meet players outside your party, unlike in the aforementioned Nanawa Mines, Deepcroft, etc.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Those weren't dungeons/instances. They were just zones with higher level mobs than their surrounding areas.

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Granted, on Nanawa Mines and the [insert expletives here] Mun-Tuy Cellars. I presented those more as an example of what 1.x map design—including in the very small number of available dungeons—was like, because I could not for the life of me find a map of the 1.x Dzemael Darkhold or Toto-Rak in a Google Image Search.

But unless I am wildly misremembering, Toto-Rak—with its multitude of potential pathways and three potential diremites to fight—was straight out a dungeon even in 1.x, and definitely had a more complex map than the present one. (Albeit a fairly simple one by 1.x standards.) Heck, Aurum Vale, if I recall correctly, was full party instanced content, in the same way that Castrum Meridianum and the Praetorium are now.

(I did just find a map of 1.x's Sastasha equivalent, though, because I have—very belatedly—recalled that it was freakin' Mistbeard Cove in 1.x, not Sastasha.)

I pray EW doesnt have boring ass dungeons like SHb did, which iirc leveling wasnt that bad and we didnt start getting the duds until Grand cosmos and no other dungeon was better than the finale

HEY! The moment after I make that post, I find the 1.x Toto-Rak in a comparison image. (Including markers for the stupid little ledges that prevented backtracking because you could not jump up onto a ledge that came up to like your waist.)

https://i.imgur.com/0lUj7Tp.png

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Originally Posted by REPROBEAN_CHILD

And that's literally THE reason why our dungeons have been hallways. It's not because the devs are "lazy," but there's no point in making a complex dungeon, where the playerbase will just stick to the fastest route. Yeah, it'd have more options, it's a waste of resources to design so many routes that go unused

Edit: And to add to this, this is also why AST's cards had become so streamlined. Its been said a million times, but I'll say it again: The constant fishing for Balance + Aoe and nothing else has resulted us getting just that

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Giving players the illusion that something is not linear will do much to alleviate the bad design. A lot of video games design levels so that even though it's linear, it appears not to be and so give the players a sense that they are freely able to explore.

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Originally Posted by REPROBEAN_CHILD

If I learned one thing about the FFXIV community, is that players want to get things done as quickly and efficiently as possible. While a dungeon with puzzles is definitely favorable, when players are presented with either choosing dungeons with more effort vs ones that are easier to complete, they're going to choose the latter. The biggest proof of this is whenever there's a Moogle Tome Event, almost everyone chooses the same 1 or 2 instances to get the most number of tomes in the shortest amount of time. Varity be damned. So, while making dungeons with branching pathways and puzzles is good during your first playthrough, running it daily, getting sick of it, then abandoning it for easier dungeons, is just a waste of resources. I see the scenario with that:

1st run: "Wow, that was a really fun dungeon. We had to work together, get the right number of items, and figure out how to find the correct pathway to the bosses. I really like the variety of options here."
100th run: "They need to give us an option to opt out of this part. I don't feel like carrying every group and this place EASILY could've taken 10 minutes to finish with just 1 pathway. I'm sick of these puzzles."

or

*Enters duty*
"Oh, it's this place."
*Leaves duty*

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When it comes to farming that is a given. The best way to get a lot is sitting there watching the movie. I do not want sit back and watch a movie for 100th time. And as many people said before if you dont like it then just don't do it. I never stepped foot in that instance ever since the change.

Its options like i said before. IF they give us more interesting dungeons along side the liner ones, that would make it more interesting to have. Exploration dungeons if you will.

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Originally Posted by Axxion

When it comes to farming that is a given. The best way to get a lot is sitting there watching the movie. I do not want sit back and watch a movie for 100th time. And as many people said before if you dont like it then just don't do it. I never stepped foot in that instance ever since the change.

Its options like i said before. IF they give us more interesting dungeons along side the liner ones, that would make it more interesting to have. Exploration dungeons if you will.

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This is a huge reason why I always complete as much content as I can on an expansion launch. You'll not get an authentic exploration and people figuring out what's going on together if you so much as play just one or two days later.