Healers who rescue pull tanks into mobs.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

I don't understand what you guys are debating, SS is by far and large better than lustrate on big pulls. You don't need to hold any heals for dungeon bosses, they don't do any damage anyways. And Recitation should pretty much always be used with excog for trash pulls.
In addition, it's not a big deal if the tank steps out of SS, and it's equally not a big deal if he gets pulled back into it. Everyone's getting upset over their flavor of bad play.

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This. Everyone here whining about rescue is basically just different variants of the person on my sig.

"Rescue abuse" is nowhere near rampant as they claim to be, and usually the ones claiming it is are people who just getting their feelings hurt with every single little thing (aka "my way or the high way" players who like to claim something is for the benefit of the group when it's only for their selfish reasons).

2+ years of the skill existing and apparently data hasn't shown the devs something needs to be curbed otherwise they'd have done something about it by now, given how they fret over every single thing that people cry abuse about (chat in PvP, for instance).

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Originally Posted by EaMett

And Recitation should pretty much always be used with excog for trash pulls.

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Thank you, I know that since lvl 74. I am very sorry that you did not read my messages clearly before writing an answer. Okay...

You cannot just spam Recitation, Sacred Soil, Excog, all of this. You using a combination of several skills that are ready, depending on the situation. I'm sorry to have to explain this here so many times. You can hold parties and do off-dps in several ways, and without SS also. None of them are prohibited.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

You don't need to hold any heals for dungeon bosses, they don't do any damage anyways.

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Tank busters also do not exist. It is a myth. Especially missed tank busters. And DPS never stand in AOE. And every beginner knows the dungeon very well and does not make mistakes. You and I are pink ponies, and Scions bots graze around.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

it's not a big deal if the tank steps out of SS, and it's equally not a big deal if he gets pulled back into it

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I would rather do it for real rescuing someone instead pulling the tank back and forth to the bubble, especially when they does not lose much HP. The problem, again, is that some people are imposing their playing style on other players. And such discussions are further evidence of this.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

A tank pulling 1 group at the time is not a tank Lol

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I pull 1 group at a time when we are down a healer for 10 minutes. ;)

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

"Rescue abuse" is nowhere near rampant as they claim to be, and usually the ones claiming it is are people who just getting their feelings hurt with every single little thing (aka "my way or the high way" players who like to claim something is for the benefit of the group when it's only for their selfish reasons).

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I was impressed with the far-reaching conclusions you make. I will give you one more reason. People don’t like to get stuck in animations and lose skills that are procs and go nowhere. Now show me your egoism thermometer please.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

I don't understand what you guys are debating, SS is by far and large better than lustrate on big pulls. You don't need to hold any heals for dungeon bosses, they don't do any damage anyways. And Recitation should pretty much always be used with excog for trash pulls.
In addition, it's not a big deal if the tank steps out of SS, and it's equally not a big deal if he gets pulled back into it. Everyone's getting upset over their flavor of bad play.

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It's very situational, and not even a discussion until lv78 when the Regen kicks in. SS can kind of be looked at like a mitigative CD you use when your tank does not have one available, or simply is not using their mitigation tools. What this means is that in this case, your SS at best is helping to make up the slack created by your tank because your AF skills will always be more optimally used on Energy Drain.

In theory, it would seem like SS is very valuable on large pulls due to the constant barrage of auto attacks the tank is receiving. However, for very large pulls, all or most resources should be available and a good tank will know how to cycle their CDs to mitigate damage in a way that you don't have to burn up your AF on SS or Lustrates. This is even more true once getting Seraph, which makes large pulls a joke.

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Originally Posted by RajNish

I was impressed with the far-reaching conclusions you make. I will give you one more reason. People don’t like to get stuck in animations and lose skills that are procs and go nowhere. Now show me your egoism thermometer please.

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Oh cool, let's delete Limit Break too. Also cast times. :-D

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

Oh cool, let's delete Limit Break too. Also cast times. :-D

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I won't rest until we get just 4 skills and an ult! :cool:

Okay, schs please shower me with sacred soil, trust me, that isn't useless by any stretch. I don't see it enough but boy oh boy when you drop that sucker, ♡_♡.

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Originally Posted by RajNish

Thank you, I know that since lvl 74. I am very sorry that you did not read my messages clearly before writing an answer. Okay...

You cannot just spam Recitation, Sacred Soil, Excog, all of this. You using a combination of several skills that are ready, depending on the situation. I'm sorry to have to explain this here so many times. You can hold parties and do off-dps in several ways, and without SS also. None of them are prohibited.

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If you're going to need to use a stack past Lvl 78 you get more from using SS than lustrate. That's all there is to it. Yeah, you can use lustrate instead if you want to, but if you're going to debate optimizing dead content like dungeons and debate optimal use of ED. Optimizing how/when you use your stacks for healing is a good start, and never touching a GCD heal is a must.

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Originally Posted by RajNish

Tank busters also do not exist. It is a myth. Especially missed tank busters. And DPS never stand in AOE. And every beginner knows the dungeon very well and does not make mistakes. You and I are pink ponies, and Scions bots graze around.

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Yeah, it kinda is a myth. Place your fairy on your tank, WD/blessing/consolation/union/whatever appropriately and you're done. If dps stand in bad or your tank messes up you'll eventually have to use a stack. Big deal, you've got plenty of them. A class that has most important cooldowns sitting at 30s and gets a stack refresh every 60s doesn't need to hold anything for bosses in dungeons. If anything, you hold stuff during the boss for the following trash pulls.
If your groups are consistently requiring you to hold stuff for bosses then I don't know what to say, you're really unlucky.

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Originally Posted by RajNish

I would rather do it for real rescuing someone instead pulling the tank back and forth to the bubble, especially when they does not lose much HP. The problem, again, is that some people are imposing their playing style on other players. And such discussions are further evidence of this.

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Either way, someone is imposing their style on others, from the tank that doesn't want to do large pulls or stand in bubbles, to the healer that yanks them around. I'm going to sound like a broken record but, it's not a big deal either way.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

It's very situational, and not even a discussion until lv78 when the Regen kicks in. SS can kind of be looked at like a mitigative CD you use when your tank does not have one available, or simply is not using their mitigation tools. What this means is that in this case, your SS at best is helping to make up the slack created by your tank because your AF skills will always be more optimally used on Energy Drain.

In theory, it would seem like SS is very valuable on large pulls due to the constant barrage of auto attacks the tank is receiving. However, for very large pulls, all or most resources should be available and a good tank will know how to cycle their CDs to mitigate damage in a way that you don't have to burn up your AF on SS or Lustrates. This is even more true once getting Seraph, which makes large pulls a joke.

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Not entirely sure if you're arguing that SS becomes worse than lustrate with diminishing returns from mitigation stacking (since SS vs lustrate was the original discussion). Or if you're just saying not to use SS or lustrate.
If it's the later, I totally agree buuuuut lets not forget that we can take that reasoning pretty far. Yeah, sure, if your tank knows what he's doing you don't need SS or lustrate, but if your party knows what they're doing.. well.. you don't even need to be there, they can replace you with a dps.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

Either way, someone is imposing their style on others, from the tank that doesn't want to do large pulls or stand in bubbles, to the healer that yanks them around. I'm going to sound like a broken record but, it's not a big deal either way.

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You came to say that you do not care? Ok, I understand you. But I do not understand why you then continue to talk to me.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

Optimizing how/when you use your stacks for healing is a good start.

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Optimal for which situation? What is the composition of the party? What is the dungeon lvl? What equipment? And what maximum / minimum DPS?

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Originally Posted by EaMett

since SS vs lustrate was the original discussion

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The original discussion somehow was gone, unfortunately. It was not about Lustrate against the SS initially. I talked about AF stacks that you can spend more productively than SS. And I named a list of skills, including Lustrate, Excogitation and ED. Situationally, sometimes Lustrate is more valuable to me. Sometimes not. Very much depends on the party and the dungeon. About "hold anything", if you are talking about the perfect party in a vacuum, I agree with you, but this is not always the case.