Dark Knight Megathread

adjustments before savage, soooo nothing for DRK bcs is fine number wise, stick with the awful gameplay design, no Delirium rework, no fix on the WAR rip-off gameplay loop, no Shadow skin, no living dead rework or fix the kit around it to handle it better, no blood weapon stack system and of course lets not dare to expect cohesion on the job kit at all, that's a crime against they vision of the game.

Like seriously, they didn't even think before they made the C&S/AD change that the problem of the overloaded oGCD burst window is bcs they just did leave the entire downtime wich represent most of the time the player is dealing with the job is complety empty of oGCD bcs they did not distribute them properly?! bcs all the MP is loaded there too?! bcs they just wasted Shadowbringer to add another unnecesary oGCD wich offer nothing but more fluff to the gameplay when the DRK comunity asked for god lord know how much time for more Weaponskills to break the awful GCD monotomy soul eater and bloodspiller is focing down our throats?!

Idk where they are getting the feedback from DRK but is not anything from the Official forum, users feedback for DRK aren't meaning anything for them, it didn't mean before so int's going to mean anything now saddly, sorry im just so salty and im being rude but god lord seems Yoshi-p and that dev feel totally disconected from us on purpose.

Now that I think about it, Shadowbringer would align pretty well as a continuation of Soul Eater's landing pose for a 4th weaponskill when under Darkside

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Originally Posted by Kalaam

Now that I think about it, Shadowbringer would align pretty well as a continuation of Soul Eater's landing pose for a 4th weaponskill when under Darkside

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In return for dropping 15 or 30s off Darkside. Darkside has so much potential for being gauge management alongside Blood.

Until Darkside receives changes DRK is a Heavy Thrust Tank. Ultimately that's all current Darkside turns out to be.

Did DARK murder a dev's family or something? At this point this seems like intentional trolling of DRK mains. If I hadn't switched my main tank to GNB back in SHB I'd be extremely disappointed. None of it's issues have been addressed, subpar sustain, subpar ivuln and subpar DPS compared to the other tanks.

After I get it to 90, in the closet it goes, it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by ArthurATDayne

They said one thing and did another, in DRK's case it seemed like they Intentionally Trolled the player base after spending that time thinking up the method.

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Idk about that. The change to flood/edge of shadow from 2 secs to 1 sec means you get to double weave again. I think that was the main complaint in SB, that DRK didn't have enough double weaving ogcds in their rotation. Seriously though, this will most likely happen. Just instead of using Dark Arts you are using Edge/Flood and you will most likely pair them with ShB when its up.

This is one of the reasons why I don't like GNB. Too many forced ogcd spams and its tricky to used your defensive cds in-between them to react to any given situation. DRK is getting dangerously close to that and I'm not too impressed about it.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

Idk about that. The change to flood/edge of shadow from 2 secs to 1 sec means you get to double weave again. I think that was the main complaint in SB, that DRK didn't have enough double weaving ogcds in their rotation. Seriously though, this will most likely happen. Just instead of using Dark Arts you are using Edge/Flood and you will most likely pair them with ShB when its up.

This is one of the reasons why I don't like GNB. Too many forced ogcd spams and its tricky to used your defensive cds in-between them to react to any given situation. DRK is getting dangerously close to that and I'm not too impressed about it.

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I'm not too worried about the Edge/Flood change from 2s to 1s because DRK only has so much Mana available to spam those 3000 Mana oGCDs before going empty. At present it seems 10000 Mana is still the max capacity for DRK and Mana sustain isn't enough to go too nuts.

I also dislike GNB but for these specific reasons: The oGCD skills are fine by themselves but that Gnashing Fang Combo + Continuation is a lot of goddamn button work to do enough DPS not to fall behind vs other tanks. The damage is so spread out over too many skills and feels like too much work for little reward to me.

In fact, one of the reasons I stopped playing GNB on this Character is because I ran out of spots on my 2 Hotbars where I was comfortable enough keybinding to my Mechanical Keyboard and 12+ Button MMO mouse. The new changes to Gnashing Fang Combo to be 1 Button frees up some spots at least so I may go back to GNB without feeling like I'm missing split second keybind reaction.

Dark Knight, despite have a lot of oGCD, doesn't force me into a Committed Do or Lose Like A Chump specific DPS single target or multi target combo like say GNB's Gnashing Fang + Continuation Combo or PLD's Requiescat Holy Spirit/Circle + Confiteor Combo so I find DRK feels more free and relaxing to play.

Just 1-2-3 Soul Eater/ 5-6 AOE Mana & Blood Sustain and oGCD as needed. Delirium 3 stacks on generous duration goes further in making this more laidback for me.

Just as an aside, is anyone else going to be removing Abyssal Drain from their hotbars when servers go live too?

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Originally Posted by RatCopter

Just as an aside, is anyone else going to be removing Abyssal Drain from their hotbars when servers go live too?

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That Damn Shared CD Timer...

When I eventually log in tonight (hopefully) I might keep Abyssal Drain on Hotbar1 Immediate Keyboard Access because that Heal Effect 200 Potency per Target is pretty important for Mob Packs and Carve & Split will be moved to Hotbar2 which is bound to MMO Mouse Side Buttons to minimize chance of accidently hitting 1 when I needed the other. Because only Abyssal Drain has both the Heal Effect & Restores Mana and Crave & Split only Restores Mana.

I really liked DRK back in heavensward when I started in 3.2.

But I can't help but always feel bad about when I play DRK. It's basically the tank I'm second best at but the neglect of this job is just silly. Guess I'll be a WAR main as far as tanks go, at least I can heal myself.

Hey lads, I recommend watching the first 20 seconds of XIV's new video if you want to know what it feels like to have played this job since it came out.

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Originally Posted by RatCopter

Just as an aside, is anyone else going to be removing Abyssal Drain from their hotbars when servers go live too?

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I've been thinking of making a new hotbar solely for most aoe skills/spells/abilities, since there's rarely any reason to use them outside of trash pulls in dungeons. Unleash, Stalwart Soul, Abyssal Drain, and Flood of Shadow will all be going on it. That should, if nothing else, free up a little space for me.

I should do the same for Dragoon. The addition of a third aoe weaponskill and the removal of the second st combo's starter completely wrecked my ability to play it in Shadowbringers, so shuffling my keybinds around after making space might help make it palatable again.

At this point I feel like they should just remove the MP cost on Blackest Night as well the associated Dark Arts effect because while it is still undeniably a strong ability, you are never going to be able to use it on cooldown without sacrificing DPS due to not always being able to take enough damage for it to fall off.

I'm tired of keeping us in the dark until the last moment when it comes to job design and balancing and then completely and thoroughly soul-crushingly disappoint us.

Tired, Tired, Tired.

I already quit in SB once before I'm not coming back this time if everything isn't fixed on 6.1

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

At this point I feel like they should just remove the MP cost on Blackest Night as well the associated Dark Arts effect because while it is still undeniably a strong ability, you are never going to be able to use it on cooldown without sacrificing DPS due to not always being able to take enough damage for it to fall off.

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That would be nice If DRK Devs removed the MP cost and associated Dark Arts effect on The Blackest Night, I'd probably lay off on the HP Sustain complaints.

If DRK can use TBN every 15s CD without resource worries then it'll be like having a semi permanent 25% Max HP bar 28s per 60s when used liberally on self off CD. I don't think I'll care about needing more HP Sustain besides 1-2-3 Soul Eater and Abyssal Drain at that point. Mana would be dedicated to just oGCD Edge/Flood and some new class mechanics can be implemented that works with Mana too without having to fight between TBN Mitigation and DPS needs.

I don't think it'll be overpowered because it's still on 15s CD and there's no Large On-Demand HP Sustain in DRK's kit. DRK seems like it's meant to Prevent Damage from happening anyway, might as well go all in on TBN, Woo Woo!

It feels especially dated when the short cooldowns the other tanks have never required them to burn a DPS resource and all got significant buffs to bring them much closer to TBN in effectiveness.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

It feels especially dated when the short cooldowns the other tanks have never required them to burn a DPS resource and all got significant buffs to bring them much closer to TBN in effectiveness.

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I feel like the practical (lack of) parity is all that should matter there. Frankly, I wish more tanks were able to trade (potential) throughput between the offensive and defensive. If anything, the issue with TBN is that it doesn't do that, at least when it works as intended.

I'd almost prefer TBN just generate "a X-potency barrier on self or target party member. 8s duration. Refunds a portion of its cost equal to barrier consumed." Voila - It doesn't scale as strongly with gear, but it's no longer so overpowered on tanks (and also has greater value on non-tanks).

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

It feels especially dated when the short cooldowns the other tanks have never required them to burn a DPS resource and all got significant buffs to bring them much closer to TBN in effectiveness.

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I agree, with Heart of Corundum, Holy Sheltron and Bloodwhetting straight up built to not only mitigate but replenish significant portion of HP Bar every 25s (in PLD's case they can now start with 100 Oath Gauge in Duties etc and cast again immediately after 1st Holy Sheltron expires), it seems fine to me to have some level 82+ Trait Upgrade for TBN removing Mana Cost.

GNB's Heart of Corundum is really nice, I like that it's a Guaranteed 900 Cure Potency on Self every 25s along with all the other cool mitigation effects. That's pretty awesome level of HP Sustain at Level 82 and up and they still got Aurora Heal over Time to further shore up HP Sustain Tanking needs. It really wouldn't hurt to have TBN be free to use every 15s to at least come close/compete with the HP Sustain of GNB/PLD/WAR via DRK's TBN Damage Prevention Identity.

The final changes going into this expansion are very lack luster for Drk. The tank that needed the most assistance got the most nerfs. Offense and defensive resources are split for all tanks, and they have done nothing to ease or modify the issues with Drk systems. Guess I am a Gunbreaker for this expac.

In my opinion, TBN costing ressources is not the big problem here. The problem is that our defensive CD is tied to Damage.

Now, if you think about it, why is it frustrating in the first place ? Is it really because we need to use the same ressource that is our " main " dps output to also use TBN ? To me, it's because we don't have any CONTROL whatsoever about it : use TBN, and pray it breaks ( at least for non-TB situations )

To prove my point about the frustration being the lack of control about our tool is : Salted Earth. It's change in EW, placing it on the ground automatically, is kinda a nerf for a bunch of player, directly because we lost control over our possibilities ( it's also a QoL for players that doesn't care much about optimizing, and my point there is not to judge anyone's way of playing )

Back to TBN : What could possibly makes us have more control over it, without having to remove the MP cost entierely ? Make it more costly !

To me, we are entering a point in the game where more and more actions have that " follow up " action tied to the same button press ( Salted Earth > Salt & Darkness or Fell Cleave > Inner Chaos )

Why not do that to TBN then ? You press TBN, you loose 3K MP, but then you gain the ability to break it whenever you want, at the cost of let's say ... 1k or 1.5k MP, and when you do decide to break it manually, it deals a proportionnate ammount of DMG equal do the extra MP cost from triggering it, in order to make it dps neutral compare to the extra ressource cost.
On top of still getting your Dark Art proc.

To me, a change such as this is the solution to " everything ".
No need to get the full value out of your TBN if you can plan ahead for it, making us having an extra ressource management to do potentially ( thing that DRK is " meant " to be good at )
No stress to use TBN for Auto-attacks in raid content, where it's always the massive grey area of " will it break or not "
No stress to see that the dungeon you're in is with a WHM, using Holy and screwing you a bit

I don't see it as an OP change, if the question about " Yes but then DRK can spam TBN even more without downside " because it's wrong : your " trigger " button would cost even more ressources, so it would balances out, it would just be the solution to the eternal problem.

There's maybe flaws around the idea, but hey, we're here to share, and sadly, i don't think TBN would ever become like this

More CDs like Vengeance would be a start. Spike damage auras or shields would be sexy. And would fill a niche playstyle a Tank could uniquely provide. All based on invoking defensives that actively hurt the enemy just by hitting you.

So much focus on Tanks these days is all about DPS and not enough about defensives.

I'd rather TBN explode if it breaks and does the amount of HP in pure damage on the fool that broke it.

One thing they should learn, though, is the sense of progression regarding new actions when you level up. Me getting a mitigation cooldown with a 90-120sec cooldown isn't as fun or engaging as a healer or especially DPS cooldown or combo move.

First, it is very situational outside of dungeons. Second, it doesn't help me kill anything faster, just longer. Third, it is not satisfying, engaging or rewarding when interacting with the open-world content. At least a healer can save a random stranger and be pals, I can't even TBN someone as a DRK.

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Originally Posted by RatCopter

Just as an aside, is anyone else going to be removing Abyssal Drain from their hotbars when servers go live too?

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It's still an incredibly good dungeon self-heal (unless they changed how the healing works, wouldn't put it past them now). The problem is that you can't make DRK slightly better in dungeons in exchange of being a worse raid main tank and call that balance.

It's funny that they decided to actually buff Reaper's Arcane Crest down to a 15 second recast from 30 seconds. Now it's not only objectively better than Oblation, but it's functionally a mini-TBN without risk of any damage penalty and a party-wide buff attached.

Even if DRK by chance ends up being on the higher end of the damage spectrum for tanks, I don't think it will be fun to play.

It's kind of hard to believe the meta won't be someone else MT and DRK blue DPS. Between not being able to be liberal with short mitigation, half your mitigation abilities being party-targetable and no additional self-sustain against bosses, everything reads designated OT.

Have a fun video. I needed a laugh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rloEYqzOwCw

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Originally Posted by Lyth

It's funny that they decided to actually buff Reaper's Arcane Crest down to a 15 second recast from 30 seconds. Now it's not only objectively better than Oblation, but it's functionally a mini-TBN without risk of any damage penalty and a party-wide buff attached.

Even if DRK by chance ends up being on the higher end of the damage spectrum for tanks, I don't think it will be fun to play.

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The duration of the regen is 15s, the recast of the skill is still 30s at least on the official web.

MAKE BLOOD GAUGE USING ABILITIES HEAL WHY DOES PALADIN HOLY ABILITIES HEAL

I still dont understand the sharing of cooldown for AD and CS. They could have at least added a heal effect to CS. Also DRK now has the least amount of sustain putting you at the mercy of your healers even more.

I wonder if this version of DRK gets some adjustments come 6.05 or even 6.01

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Originally Posted by Derio

I still dont understand the sharing of cooldown for AD and CS. They could have at least added a heal effect to CS. Also DRK now has the least amount of sustain putting you at the mercy of your healers even more.

I wonder if this version of DRK gets some adjustments come 6.05 or even 6.01

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Less weaving. Shadowbringers has two stacks already and it really looks like they didnt wan't to change the tanks too mutch.

Hey. Long time DRK apologies if this gets wordy and messy I just want to get my thoughts on dark knight while first impressions are still fresh in my mind.

Disclaimer I’m only lvl 82 for DRK.

There’s been a lot of ideas passed around for Dark knight and I’m not sure if I can add any ideas that haven’t already been said. But I think the question that I ask after many many hours of play is “at its core what is the DRK”

Thematically dark knight has been the black knight archetype stand in, something dark but still heroic as a job. And it’s core has been focused on 3 things, being HP spend, damage dealing, and lifesteal. It got introduced as the mp spending tank it is now to mimic the feel of the classic job. Was really fun tank and I can still pinpoint the exact moment I fell in love with it. But after seeing so many changes it no longer feels like the class it was introduced as.

It’s fine to play as but it’s not fun.

Dark knight does not live up to the impression your given when introduced to it anymore. In a job actions trailer you can kind of assume what the theme of every tank is. Paladin is the holy protector so it’s got holy looking attacks, big shield for protection, and skills to match. Warrior you got a berserker so you prolly have some skills that make the player feel like a raging barbarian. Gunbreaker has an explosive sword gun so you think it has lot of damage.

So then what’s dark knight? Damage mitigation? Lifesteal? Dps?

Living dead is a fantastic idea thematically for the dark knight, but part of the reason it’s so bad is due to the high life cap and because the kit of a dark knight doesn’t fit the dark knight.

Right now it feels like a tank that they’re throwing everything at that other tanks have and do better because they’re afraid of the DRK becoming a permanent fix to parties like it used to be in HW. But in their fear it’s become a tank that honestly probably going to get dropped when savage content comes because it can’t keep up to other tanks.

There’s more reasons why the tank isn’t fun to play, animations, short combos, mp gage spending for skills that other tanks have for free and better.

At the end of the day I just want my lifesteal dark tank back, or at the very least a tank that feels unique and lends itself well to the theming. The dev team likes to say they play their game and everything is subject to change but it feels like a class that is lazy in design by having the scraps of other tanks bolted onto it. Even things like the animations aren’t impressive compared to other tanks

On a more hopeful note I do see a good rework in the future, or at least I hope for one.

Man I just found out about the shared CD on CS and Abyssal Drain.

why even waste a hotkey on abyssal drain now? One gives free MP, one does nothing.

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Originally Posted by Derio

I still dont understand the sharing of cooldown for AD and CS. They could have at least added a heal effect to CS. Also DRK now has the least amount of sustain putting you at the mercy of your healers even more.

I wonder if this version of DRK gets some adjustments come 6.05 or even 6.01

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Agreed. At least set the CD of both to 30s so that average use of the two stays the same. It seems like they wanted to add a choice instead of just having the two be something you hit on CD, but it's not a choice, you simply use one on ST and the other against 3+ targets, like every other aoe.

DRK needs some form of healing full stop. Having ONLY Souleater heal you during single target whilst all the other tanks have at least one form of ogcd healing FOR FREE is absurd. Leveling Dark Knight currently in the story and its rough I gotta tell ya. Maybe give TBN a hot on break, make delirium bloodspillers/quietus give 400 cure pot heal, or Carve n Spit 1200+ pot heal like Equilibrium.

It's crazy that the way to rebalance DRK's sustain issue is just to make it even more like warrior lol

6.1 Dark Knight predictions:

Blood spiller: Added 20 potency heal
Quietus: Replaced with Stalwart Soul
Salted Darkness: Now makes an underwater fart sound effect
Enhanced Plunge: Increase <Plunge> cooldown reduction from <Unmend> to 6 seconds
Oblation: Removed 10% Damage mitigation but reduced cooldown to 30 seconds so you can pretend to be cool or fun when playing

Its obvious whoever's in charge of Dark Knight clearly doesn't understand what's fun. At this point I'd rather have Yoshida on job designs than whatever intern they have at the moment.

Well bois and gurls, another day and another disappointment in DRK once again.

Worst part, DRK is not even on par with the tanks at all

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Originally Posted by Deathshiro

DRK needs some form of healing full stop. Having ONLY Souleater heal you during single target whilst all the other tanks have at least one form of ogcd healing FOR FREE is absurd. Leveling Dark Knight currently in the story and its rough I gotta tell ya. Maybe give TBN a hot on break, make delirium bloodspillers/quietus give 400 cure pot heal, or Carve n Spit 1200+ pot heal like Equilibrium.

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There can even be hilarious meta lore to go with this Delirium Upgrade:

After suffering years of feeling anger, resentment, indignation at the injustice of it all... You finally snapped and can mend wounds by sheer force of will. In your state of Delirium, all imagined thoughts of taking life from your enemies is made manifest by restoring HP 400 Potency for each Bloodspiller/Quietus landed.

Bonus points for having flavor text comments every time Bloodspiller/Quietus lands successfully while under Delirium in the combat logs (so it's not too intrusive) "F--- You!" "F--- This!", "F--- you all!", "F--- my life!", "F--- Enhanced Unmend!", "F--- Salt & Darkness!" will appear between the skill used and damage number etc.