A summary of healer issues

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

Problem is, if you're bad at spamming Malefic all that happens is that the party does less damage, maybe you see enrage, but also other players can make up for part of that lost damage by being good at their own class. If you're bad at spamming Benefic 2 and the content is actually demanding you're good at Benefic 2, then you cause a wipe. Because of this, SE is super hesitant to ever put actual healing requirements in things, and this tier when they actually did, people didn't react well to it, having gotten accustomed to the 'usual' damage profile of raids. Also doesn't help it was, once again, more focused on 'use more mit' instead of 'heal more'.

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This is true. However it is true for every role.
I'm refering specifically to savage and ultimate content, where people are supposed to know what they are doing.

1. If tank is bad at mitigating or switching aggro, what is going to happen?
- Tank dies and the other one can be a safety net
- Both tanks die, boss starts hitting DPS -> Raid wipes

2. If DPS is bad at doing DPS?
- Other DPS can maybe compensate and be a safety net
- Raid wipes because of enrage

3. If Healer is bad at healing?
- Other healer can maybe compensate and be a safety net
- Raid wipes because of lack of healing


For some reason tanks and DPS are expected to do their job just fine. But Oh noes! If healers are not doing theirs, the world is going to end.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I think we talked about this a while ago, but basically they’re just 2 buttons that you can set to your hotbar that automatically change to one of your GCD attacks based on a priority system.

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To clarify, I'm not asking for the one specific iteration you alone are looking for, but rather some idea as to how any such feature might fit into the larger game. Again, the question was anyone/everyone:

Assuming we had some sort of basic conditionals-assisted consolidation or autonomously rotating options available to healer, what would be the overarching system to contextualize that (so that it's not this oddity unique to healer --and therefore unintuitive for that unique- /one-off-ness), and what might it(s gameplay implications) look like?



Would it, for instance, be sort of a Gamut / Gambit system, as an improvement to macros (removing their purposely included self-sabotaging obstacles and making them capable of at least some mild conditionals), with a fair number of such options given automatically to the player as they acquire new skills, and where essentially everyone would use some manner of AI or consolidation... just with more or fewer options also being discrete / purposely left out of rotational cycles (Dia held separate for movement/snapshotting, Lillies held separate for movement/burst)?

Or might it be worth going so far as to have a true autonomous system where you basically start with a Trust AI rotation (though still improved, admittedly, as it'd at least have AoE) and players optimize atop that by varying the upcoming decisions and deploying bankable tools at optimal times?

I assume it'd be a flowchart of simple yes/no checks to decide what is the next step to take. For example, lets take HW SCH, with it's extra DOTs and casted Shadowflare and what have you.

https://i.gyazo.com/9b9a937d8d6a7506...c603e30f26.png

The problem with a system like Ty suggests is that there are certain decisions that must be made by the player, and cannot be interpreted by the auto-battle system. For example, if you were to add Chain Strat as a node on this flowchart so it automatically pops it, you lose the ability to make the decision to hold it for a few seconds, eg Pinax or Manifold Flames. That means that the autobattle system can never be 100% of the efficiency of a real player using their brain, and that's where certain people stop supporting it. Because it can't perform at the same level as actual brains.

Actually, having something akin to a gambit system lite could be a good way to go about creating a system like this, as that gives players more freedom to use it how they like if at all. For example, maybe you just use it for MCH’s 1-2-3 combo or RDM’s melee combo to condense your hot bars. Or perhaps you try to put most of your rotation into it to simplify your gameplay. The system would just be much smoother than actual macros. And much like macros, there would be ways to use the system lightly which might not interfere with your ability to optimize, such as the former examples, or ways you can stress it to where it becomes less efficient, such as the later example.

I imagine this system only works with GCD actions and would still require input like how combos function in PvP. OGCDs would be difficult to blend into that in regards to smoothness. But I don’t think that’s a bad thing.

The thing is, not being able to get the system to automate your entire gameplay with 100% optimization of your job is not a problem because that isn’t the point of a system like this. It’s like the example I gave with fighting games. Providing a basic character-specific combo in a fighting game that you get when you mash the A button is there to make it so that any button-masher can have an easier time getting through, say, the story mode against the AI and feel cool while playing, rather than just watching your character rigidly try and jab the enemy to death and fail trying. It’s not there to get that same player to the top of a PvP tournament effortlessly.

I brought up this concept as a bargaining chip for the unreasonable “nothing is allowed to change!” argument that continues to plague the forums since it means that player can toss all their attacks onto this auto battle button and perform well enough that any lost optimization shouldn’t matter. It’s not the healthiest response to that behavior, but I’m also thinking from SE’s perspective of healers being so cartoonishly delicate that the “healer who heals by attacking” couldn’t possibly manage more than 3 core attack buttons.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

SE’s perspective of healers being so cartoonishly delicate that the “healer who heals by attacking” couldn’t possibly manage more than 3 core attack buttons.

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https://media.tenor.com/nP0VTQlKjNwA...ma-glasses.gif

"My Medica! I can't heal without my Medica-like skill!"

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

I assume it'd be a flowchart of simple yes/no checks to decide what is the next step to take. For example, lets take HW SCH, with it's extra DOTs and casted Shadowflare and what have you.

The problem with a system like Ty suggests is that there are certain decisions that must be made by the player, and cannot be interpreted by the auto-battle system. For example, if you were to add Chain Strat as a node on this flowchart so it automatically pops it, you lose the ability to make the decision to hold it for a few seconds, eg Pinax or Manifold Flames. That means that the autobattle system can never be 100% of the efficiency of a real player using their brain, and that's where certain people stop supporting it. Because it can't perform at the same level as actual brains.

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I think that's fine. If anything, it just means that many people would opt out of certain inclusions (Miasma, if you won't be able to finish the cast but Bio is available to be refreshed anyways; Bio, if you're free to cast Broil this GCD but will be limited to just Bio anyways next GCD due to forced movement; Shadowflare, especially if it's on a CD, since you might want to hold for adds; etc.), leaving control increasingly in their own hands outside of filler.

I guess my bigger points though are just that...

1. if we're putting that 'token' down, it probably shouldn't just be this weird one-off thing for healers, but instead a smoothly integrated gamewide feature, and
   
   
2. it should consider whatever other ways may exist of improving apparent access despite increased offensive kit depth (even if that's just something targeting perception, like "Glare spam isn't really that big a loss, anyways, actually...") and the actual percentage gaps between performance by other means, too (e.g., game-wide under-mechanics like partial DoT duration roll-over so that the occasional early or slightly late refresh isn't such a bad thing).

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I think that's fine. If anything, it just means that many people would opt out of certain inclusions (Miasma, if you won't be able to finish the cast but Bio is available to be refreshed anyways; Bio, if you're free to cast Broil this GCD but will be limited to just Bio anyways next GCD due to forced movement; Shadowflare, especially if it's on a CD, since you might want to hold for adds; etc.), leaving control increasingly in their own hands outside of filler.

I guess my bigger points though are just that...

1. if we're putting that 'token' down, it probably shouldn't just be this weird one-off thing for healers, but instead a smoothly integrated gamewide feature, and
   
   
2. it should consider whatever other ways may exist of improving apparent access despite increased offensive kit depth (even if that's just something targeting perception, like "Glare spam isn't really that big a loss, anyways, actually...") and the actual percentage gaps between performance by other means, too (e.g., game-wide under-mechanics like partial DoT duration roll-over so that the occasional early or slightly late refresh isn't such a bad thing).

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Another huge positive that this system could have if implemented would be the ability to share your gambits publicly or with friends, perhaps uploading them to a new menu where you can "download" upvoted gambits. Skilled players could upload "perfect" rotations to use on Stone, Sky, Sea which could be used as a training device where someone can use it to practice performing that rotation manually. As we've said, nuance certainly makes manual play better suited to adjust to various situations in real combat, but sometimes the hardest part of picking up a new job is learning where to start and figuring out what value your different actions have for your rotation.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Another huge positive that this system could have if implemented would be the ability to share your gambits publicly or with friends, perhaps uploading them to a new menu where you can "download" upvoted gambits. Skilled players could upload "perfect" rotations to use on Stone, Sky, Sea which could be used as a training device where someone can use it to practice performing that rotation manually. As we've said, nuance certainly makes manual play better suited to adjust to various situations in real combat, but sometimes the hardest part of picking up a new job is learning where to start and figuring out what value your different actions have for your rotation.

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Precisely. And just the fact that the emphasis is on the variations, more so than the ABC (fixed combos / always be casting), may tend to nudge/facilitate consideration more towards, oddly enough, higher level optimizations much earlier than would occur otherwise.

While the system may work, I'd rather just aim to mimic similar results via potency balancing, I think. It'd be faster to implement than a whole new system. For example, let's take SCH's DOT kit from HW, when it had the most. So we have (in single target) Bio, Miasma, 100%uptime Shadowflare as a GCD, and Broil as filler. Instead of what we have now, where Biolysis is 700p total and Broil is 295 (so the DOT is over 2x the potency-per-GCD of the spam nuke), Why not have something like:

Broil 5: 310p
Bio: Instant cast, 80p per tick, 12s duration (320 total)
Miasma: cast time, 50p on cast, 50p per tick, 18s duration (350 total)
Shadowflare: instantcast but GCD, 35p per tick, lasts 30s on the floor but since it's GCD it can easily be repositioned (350 total)

So if someone wants to ignore ALL of the DOTs entirely for...whatever reason, they don't lose all that much damage. By my maths, swapping every DOT refresh to another Broil would add up to a total potency loss of 790 over three minutes. The effective loss of damage from a Hyosho that didn't crit and DHit vs one that does both crit and DHit is bigger than that, and potentially happens once a minute. By contrast, currently ignoring the DOT entirely and just using an extra Broil in it's place would add up to a potency loss of 2430 per 3 minutes. Also with bringing back Shadowflare like this, I just thought: We can steal Salt and Darkness and convert Energy Drain into a skill that works like 'Shadowflare ruptures for X damage to all enemies within it' which would feel cooler than the piddly needle VFX it has now

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the idea of 'autobattle' if that's the compromise that needs to be made. I just feel like since it's an entire new system, SE would never bother with making it. So making the 'difference in potency output between full optimal and one button bob' be slimmer via potency tweaking would yield similar results (one button users would deal good damage regardless, filthy optimizers can still optimize), without the devtime of the new system. And we've seen from Energy Drain and it's existence (and complaints when it's existence is threatened) that it doesn't matter how little a gain something is for optimization, people like to have it as an option. Like, you 'can' dump Lilies by overhealing and put Misery in raidbuffs. But how many players, out of the entire playerbase, actually do that? Even in Savages and such, I reckon it's not actually a majority. Even I don't bother sometimes, I don't like the idea of wasting healing specific resources like that

Again, looking at the graphs of 'what GCDs are used per minute' I made here. You can see our current rotation on the top graph, and my pitched rotation on the bottom one. But that bottom one is the 'fully optimal, putting both Misery AND the Quake/Flood/Tornado empowerments into the raidbuffs'. If there's no damage for an entire minute or longer (completely possible in the current state of the game, lets be real), it's not actually necessary to prep and fire a Misery, or use my hypothetical new heal and get Quake etc. from it. You could just use more Glares. So how many people are going to bother with all the extra optimization of doing that even when healing isn't actually needed? I doubt some massive amount of players are going to specifically hold the new healing tool, just so they can get one extra Glare worth of damage (all three empowerments add up to only one Glare worth of damage) while ALSO dumping Lilies on healing in such a way they can get Misery into the raidbuffs as well. It's there as 'potential', as 'maybe the epic gamers could pull this off' but I expect that over 90% of players would just use the heal as, well, a heal, and the refund damage is just that, a refund, the thought of 'oh if I do XYZ I can move this inside the raidbuff window' wouldn't even enter most player's brains. Look how many people in Savage, across the whole raiding playerbase, actually do the Dissipation/6 ED dump opener on SCH.

Lol I see they're keeping the giga hitboxes and just buffing healer AOEs to hit everyone in Meracydia instead. Let's make everything even more simplistic, skill expression be damned. :rock on:

Healers are now different, the game is fixed

They all do different potencies per tick with their DOTs now, we can stop complaining now

Also, did they actually make Collective's damage mit portion 30y and leave the regen at 8y because it doesn't mention the regen part at all, and if so, that's the most jank thing I can imagine. Two seperate radii to think about would be SUPER casual-friendly /s

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

Healers are now different, the game is fixed

They all do different potencies per tick with their DOTs now, we can stop complaining now

Also, did they actually make Collective's damage mit portion 30y and leave the regen at 8y because it doesn't mention the regen part at all, and if so, that's the most jank thing I can imagine. Two seperate radii to think about would be SUPER casual-friendly /s

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Correct me if I misread, but I believe they blew up all of the mits and left the regens alone.

Let's keep the boring mitigation meta going kids, but make it even easier this time around. Best healer design ever, I'd laugh if I weren't annoyed that RDM is still dog dookie this far into the expansion.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Correct me if I misread, but I believe they blew up all of the mits and left the regens alone.

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Physis 2 is a regen and that got adjusted, unless they're only increasing the '10% additional healing effectiveness' part

Lmao what even are those radius buffs and lol DoT tick potency tweak. Can they do any worse?

The 6.4 radius buffs just weird me out. Like, I guess the fairy can toss a damage reduction all the way out to Narnia, but not HP restoration. Why? Collective Unconscious's damage reduction is no longer tied to the bubble, the thing the game shows as actually blocking damage. Why?

Do all these different radii make sense in terms of theming and lore? They feel more like someone saw a problem and decided to hit it with the bluntest instrument they could find.

Thanks to all the radius increases that blackmage can now truly stay on another reflection of Eorzea

Thanks for the radius buffs. Now I can shut my brain off even further. Positioning? That's only for sweaty tryhards who don't pay my sub!

Did i misread or is Astro, the time mage, now the healer with the weakest DoT?

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Originally Posted by BRVV

Did i misread or is Astro, the time mage, now the healer with the weakest DoT?

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They've been the one running with weakest DoT for a long time.

Back in end of ShB it was 720p (WHM); 700p (SCH); and 600p (AST).
EW Launch we were at 660p (WHM); 700p (SCH & SGE); and 550p (AST)

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

They've been the one running with weakest DoT for a long time.

Back in end of ShB it was 720p (WHM); 700p (SCH); and 600p (AST).
EW Launch we were at 660p (WHM); 700p (SCH & SGE); and 550p (AST)

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Ah i see. Don't really understand why but hey

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Lmao what even are those radius buffs

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To be fair with the increase of the hitbox of bosses, bigger arenas and mechanics that may randomly ask people to go pick flowers in Narnia, there were already some fights where the difficulty wasn't the mechanic or the healing but reaching people and it was clear that was not the dev intention so its not a negative change.

Did they overdo it? Very likely but we have to see the mechanics of Savage

There were more ellegant solutions? Absolutely but a blunt solution is better than none imo.

I think I see why they increased the radius. The new raids have more different encounter map layouts from just a square or circular field, so they might be experimenting with different varied boss floor layouts (which is great). I can see why they increased the radius to ensure mechanics that require party members to be far away will have no issue on receiving the buff effect for that reason. Maybe Savage fights will have a different map layout?

On another note, I really like the new collective unconscious second wave. The sfx and animation is great with the increased radius, but it sometimes randomly cancels the channel skill when I use it so I don't get the celestial ring. It's not a big issue since I plan on mostly using the skill for the snapshot, but is a bit annoying sometimes if I do want to channel a bit longer for non-targetable phases. I think the second diffused snapshot effect of collective Unconscious makes it my favorite skill out of all the healers currently due to both the nicer visual/sfx and the extra layer of nuance from giving a more pronounced effect on the usage of keeping the channel active in a smaller radius as opposed to standing far away to receive the snapshot defense buff.

Or maybe I'm just sick of everyone not being within 8y when using Collective Unconscious, and this fixes that problem entirely lol.

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

I think I see why they increased the radius. The new raids have more different encounter map layouts from just a square or circular field, so they might be experimenting with different varied boss floor layouts (which is great). I can see why they increased the radius to ensure mechanics that require party members to be far away will have no issue on receiving the buff effect for that reason. Maybe Savage fights will have a different map layout?

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Except, what of when the flow of the raid in and out around particular mechanics, precisely because of that limited range, (would otherwise have) made the fights more engaging anyways?

(I guess I could see it for the more casual end or PuG side of things, but I actually like the ins and outs of combat beyond just what's provided by alternating donut and radial AoEs, and would prefer that raid timers become more regularly featured, honestly, than everything require even less thought/positioning/coordination.)

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

To be fair with the increase of the hitbox of bosses, bigger arenas and mechanics that may randomly ask people to go pick flowers in Narnia, there were already some fights where the difficulty wasn't the mechanic or the healing but reaching people and it was clear that was not the dev intention so its not a negative change.

Did they overdo it? Very likely but we have to see the mechanics of Savage

There were more ellegant solutions? Absolutely but a blunt solution is better than none imo.

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After running the latest NRs, I can definitely see why they think have to give the radius buff.

But just like many previous 'fixes' they made, this is one of those times where I feel like they've overfixed. I'd like to be proven wrong when I have a taste of their savage floors, but I'm not keeping high hopes.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

I feel like they've overfixed. I'd like to be proven wrong when I have a taste of their savage floors, but I'm not keeping high hopes.

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Oh don't get me wrong, I feel they overfixed too and they may be stepping too much into SCH's niche of remote healing, but at the same time certain phases of ultimates and savage have started to show the necessity of a small aoe increase if they are going to maintain their design philosophy.

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

To be fair with the increase of the hitbox of bosses, bigger arenas and mechanics that may randomly ask people to go pick flowers in Narnia, there were already some fights where the difficulty wasn't the mechanic or the healing but reaching people and it was clear that was not the dev intention so its not a negative change.

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I would simply consider "limited range" to be part of the difficulty and it certainly didn't need to be removed.

Curtain Call in P4S for example would've been an utter joke if it weren't for that limited range, limited range on melee attacks was something we previously had to consider as well, it's what made optimizing fights fun.
If everything can be done from any position in the arena it turns into a target dummy fight.

It would be funny if they reverted those Range changes to their 7 yalm radius original sizes, only to give all the healers the same new shiny button in the form of an "Increase the range of your abilities by X amount for X seconds." ability.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

It would be funny if they reverted those Range changes to their 7 yalm radius original sizes, only to give all the healers the same new shiny button in the form of an "Increase the range of your abilities by X amount for X seconds." ability.

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As weird as it sounds I wouldn't hate that change, although I probably wouldn't just give every healer the exact same ability. Obviously it would depend on boss mechanics but it could add some decision making.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

As weird as it sounds I wouldn't hate that change, although I probably wouldn't just give every healer the exact same ability. Obviously it would depend on boss mechanics but it could add some decision making.

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The thing is, I think I recall one of the devs on the liveletter previous to the release of Endwalker commenting on the fact that they had "no idea" what else to add to healers in response to the lukewarm reception to SCH's new capstone ability "Expedient" .

If there is no significant rework I can see them giving some cosmetic updates to our Nuke as per usual, increase the potency by 10 and then add said "Range extension" ability across all healers and that's it.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

It would be funny if they reverted those Range changes to their 7 yalm radius original sizes, only to give all the healers the same new shiny button in the form of an "Increase the range of your abilities by X amount for X seconds." ability.

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That would be a more useful role action than Repose, honestly. Wouldn't mind it probably

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

I would simply consider "limited range" to be part of the difficulty and it certainly didn't need to be removed.

Curtain Call in P4S for example would've been an utter joke if it weren't for that limited range, limited range on melee attacks was something we previously had to consider as well, it's what made optimizing fights fun.
If everything can be done from any position in the arena it turns into a target dummy fight.

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The problem is that the "limited range" isn't always part of the intended difficulty and it started to create problems. Fights like P4S have Curtain call where the limited range is part of the intended difficulty as it gives consistent time lapses where players can play around buff application and using mitigation to reach everyone, which is nice because during uptime the 2m meta and mechanics wait for no one, but in other recent fights, like TOP, that is not the case and have some phases that may ask players to randomly go away without them having much agency to play around that limitation. These changes are made to solve that problem which was pretty clear an unintended difficulty.

There is also the whole issue of the hitbox of the bosses which may cause tanks to miss dps buffs or mit if there is any mechanic that force the players to not enter the hitbox and the boss is big enough

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

The problem is that the "limited range" isn't always part of the intended difficulty and it started to create problems. Fights like P4S have Curtain call where the limited range is part of the intended difficulty as it gives consistent time lapses where players can play around buff application and using mitigation to reach everyone, which is nice because during uptime the 2m meta and mechanics wait for no one, but in other recent fights, like TOP, that is not the case and have some phases that may ask players to randomly go away without them having much agency to play around that limitation. These changes are made to solve that problem which was pretty clear an unintended difficulty.

There is also the whole issue of the hitbox of the bosses which may cause tanks to miss dps buffs or mit if there is any mechanic that force the players to not enter the hitbox and the boss is big enough

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Those are problems entirely of SE's own making. They made the mechanics for TOP, they made gigantic hitboxes and they made the 2 minute meta, I don't need to be sold a solution to a problem they themselves created.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Those are problems entirely of SE's own making. They made the mechanics for TOP, they made gigantic hitboxes and they made the 2 minute meta, I don't need to be sold a solution to a problem they themselves created.

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All the problems in the end are SE's own making. The thing is, these are problems that are happening at the hardest fights and can't be solved without massive reworks that are not realistically happening this late into the expansion, so I'd rather have a blunt solution that letting the problem fester and ignore it.

Let alone how out of all the things healers have lost over the years dying on the hill of range limitation is a weird one.

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

All the problems in the end are SE's own making. The thing is, these are problems that are happening at the hardest fights and can't be solved without massive reworks that are not realistically happening this late into the expansion, so I'd rather have a blunt solution that letting the problem fester and ignore it.

Let alone how out of all the things healers have lost over the years dying on the hill of range limitation is a weird one.

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One man's fixed problem is another's further McDonaldization. I see it as another March further down the road to zero skill expression, dumbing jobs down to make Japanese party finder ever more consistent, etc. Buff range isn't a hill I'd die on, because I died several mountain ranges back. It's more evidence that Square continues the march forward on their horrible job design philosophy, and nothing we warn about here has any impact. Sylphies are the target audience.

As a new player (about a month in)...I'm finding my main headache is trying to heal while having to dodge the near continuous stream of AOE attacks by bosses. If I don't die at least once, then it's a good run.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

One man's fixed problem is another's further McDonaldization. I see it as another March further down the road to zero skill expression, dumbing jobs down to make Japanese party finder ever more consistent, etc. Buff range isn't a hill I'd die on, because I died several mountain ranges back. It's more evidence that Square continues the march forward on their horrible job design philosophy, and nothing we warn about here has any impact. Sylphies are the target audience.

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Do you think it will be 7.0 or 8.0 when SE decides to remove the cast time and costs from GCD Heals because that honestly feels like a possibility now.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

Do you think it will be 7.0 or 8.0 when SE decides to remove the cast time and costs from GCD Heals because that honestly feels like a possibility now.

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If that's the price to pay for 'actually interesting gameplay during downtime where there's nothing to heal' I'll absolutely make that trade. The issue is that SE would do the first half of the trade (instantcast, free heal GCDs) and not the second half in compensation (the additional gameplay). See Kaiten, and how some expected it to be replaced by something else that requires braincells. Instead it was replaced with... nothing. So the kenki got dumped onto Shinten instead, very fun.

And if the change did happen in such a way that eg Medica is now an OGCD with a 2 sec CD, what would the new rationalization from the 'healers should heal' squad be, it's not like the 'casuals' would be stressed if they could weave healing OGCD at literally any moment, akin to weaving tank mitigations

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

If that's the price to pay for 'actually interesting gameplay during downtime where there's nothing to heal' I'll absolutely make that trade. The issue is that SE would do the first half of the trade (instantcast, free heal GCDs) and not the second half in compensation (the additional gameplay). See Kaiten, and how some expected it to be replaced by something else that requires braincells. Instead it was replaced with... nothing. So the kenki got dumped onto Shinten instead, very fun.

And if the change did happen in such a way that eg Medica is now an OGCD with a 2 sec CD, what would the new rationalization from the 'healers should heal' squad be, it's not like the 'casuals' would be stressed if they could weave healing OGCD at literally any moment, akin to weaving tank mitigations

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I for one eagerly await the new justification for HeALeRs ShOULd bE HeALiNG crowd once it becomes even easier than it is now. I've already had my mind broken with "Glare is fun and comfy", so screw it. Bring it on. Let the madness strip naked and jiggle around on the FFXIV healing stage, I'm already DPSing anyway.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Those are problems entirely of SE's own making. They made the mechanics for TOP, they made gigantic hitboxes and they made the 2 minute meta, I don't need to be sold a solution to a problem they themselves created.

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This... mostly.

I wouldn't mind if the "solutions" were something that helped players for whom such "clicks" less to then more easily engage with complexity. And often that can even be something relatively subtle.

Let's take the recent raid buff range increases. It's a solution to a problem of "It's annoying when randoms won't get in range of buffs," but it's not the only solution. An alternative, for instance, would be a raid buff display, with noticeable timers for when those raid buffs are coming up. At the most extreme, maybe even a visually-integrated macro-warning and/or ping system (similar to how the countdown is a visual indicator of something otherwise found only in chat). It still eases up players getting into range, but in a way that eases engagement with that point of engagement, rather than simply removing it outright.

Similarly, let's take frequent positionals, as per Monk. Cutting its positionals down to a third of what they were an expansion ago is a solution to "Having chosen the iconically positional-heavy class, I'm getting overwhelmed by positionals, especially since I feel tuned around getting 100% positional accuracy, but due to fight design I must often rely on a Role Action gimmick to even do that." But, again, it's not the only such solution. We could have instead, for instance, just revised positionals and their interactions with bosses suddenly turning or affixing themselves to the edge of the arena where positionals would be impossible regardless of what the tank does. We could, for instance, have positionals re-check for positional success a half-second later, such that so long as the positional was correct either before or having predicted the boss spin, the attack still succeeds. And rather than making certain fights rely on True North, we could also just have the boss temporarily become successfully attackable from any/all sides, or convert the front into a 'rear' (e.g., as per original Demon Wall), when they affix themselves to the edge. Etc., etc.

Either way, though, we'd need to roll back the more recent "solutions" already given, and change that route to reduced annoyance from reduction to, instead, polish and facilitated engagement.



:: To be clear, though, I don't think the "2-minute meta" is a problem, or at least certainly not a new one. It just does what we were obliged to do previously in HW and StB anyways: to stack a single CD template. It merely removes that chance of playing basically without raid buffs when we're somehow allowed into the Savage party despite being the odd one out (and not even being a BLM/SkS-SAM). I'll agree that having no competing reasons to hold CDs, etc., beyond boss jumps or phase-shift cutscenes makes things more dull, but that's more an issue with fight design (e.g., lack of short-term checks) and, just as importantly, how quickly we could out-gear competing challenges anyways.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kcj

As a new player (about a month in)...I'm finding my main headache is trying to heal while having to dodge the near continuous stream of AOE attacks by bosses. If I don't die at least once, then it's a good run.

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How do you do on dps?