OMG Give us an AOE heal that is not worthless!

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Originally Posted by Nuclayer

What Utility does a SCH have that is niche or supports a WHM that another WHM does not bring or at least compensate for? In other words, what can a SCH do that no other class do that makes it worth bringing?

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Just curious- what does a blm do that no other class does to make it worth bringing? With the exception of bards... and maybe paladins (stuns)... what exactly is so unique about any class that makes it so necessary?

It's why every dps wants to be the highest/every healer wants to be the healiest/every tank wants to be the tankiest- because if they aren't they say-

"What can I do that no one else can do that makes me worth taking"? In other words- what makes me a special snowflake and required?

In a completely balanced game- No one has something unique that makes them required.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

2 whm support each other well though with the regen and medica 2 stacking. also less enmity for the whm who now can heal less since they dont have to make up for the sch's craptastic aoe healing

You are right that sch has support healer utility. The problem is that its completely non essential. Whm can heal encounters fine without a sch support healer, they may even find some fights easier as double whm(titan hm,coil 2). But a sch relies on whm's aoe healing .

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I am in complete agreement with you, was just stating it plainly for the guy that asked.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Then make a thread about how using 2 sch on that encounter is impossible, including fight data.

You don't have to complain about whms to prove that scholars are not functioning. You do realize these posts of yours are nothing more than complaining to get whms nerfed, right? It's obvious.

If you wanted scholars fixed, you would be addressing their issues directly, without constantly complaining about whms.

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Are you kidding? This entire thread started with the point being that SCH need help in the way of stronger aoe and pet fixes and you + a bunch of other whm extremists came in shouting that SCH is fine lol Everytime ideas were put out you and all the other WHM's shot it down, not just shot it down but some of you even had the nerve to say that SCH is not supposed to be able to main heal because that is a WHM's job. Please just stop posting in threads that you don't entirely read. Also, who says WHM's DON'T need a nerf? As long as WHM remain as powerful as they are SCH will always be second rate. It may well be that a combination of buffs to SCH and nerfs to WHM are needed to even the playing field. This was not a call to nerf WHM however tho I am sure some random WHM will say SCH want WHM nerfed lol..

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Originally Posted by Nuclayer

What Utility does a SCH have that is niche or supports a WHM that another WHM does not bring or at least compensate for? In other words, what can a SCH do that no other class do that makes it worth bringing?

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SCH doesn't have any utility that warrants bringing them. My comment before was merely stating that while it may not be intended for us to play a support role that is pretty much what we got since we have a faulty sketchy kit for what is supposed to be our main role.

Infact this is even more true when you consider that 2 WHM's can do anything with 0 problems, 1 WHM and 1 SCH working together is a bigger benefit to the WHM than it is to the SCH, and 2 SCH is just detrimental to each other AND the group. Could 2 SCH work? Sure, prolly but the amount of extra work involved, the flawless gameplay of the group etc are all factors in this which begs the question of why didn't you just get a pair of WHM's?...

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Originally Posted by Alu79

I am in complete agreement with you, was just stating it plainly for the guy that asked.




Everytime ideas were put out you and all the other WHM's shot it down, not just shot it down but some of you even had the nerve to say that SCH is not supposed to be able to main heal because that is a WHM's job.

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I didn't say everything is fine- I said pets needed to be fixed. It just becomes a bit much when people start saying "give scholars medica, give scholars whm abilities" or post inaccurate numbers purporting to be fact to prove a point. I also specifically said that SCH was advertised as a full fledged main healer, and this "support healer" nonsense is bunk.

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SCH doesn't have any utility that warrants bringing them. My comment before was merely stating that while it may not be intended for us to play a support role that is pretty much what we got since we struggle at what is supposed to be our main role.

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You mean SCH x 2. There is plenty of evidence supporting that SCH + WHM is ideal. Again, you are distorting things. That is why it is best to leave whm out of the conversation and just deal with the issue at hand.

Besides, posting data and evidence is how classes get changed- whining about other classes doesn't work. Post some real evidence and fight data to support your claims. Whining about whms |= an argument for SCH improvements.

sch is fine except for their crap pet ai.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Just curious- what does a blm do that no other class does to make it worth bringing? With the exception of bards... and maybe paladins (stuns)... what exactly is so unique about any class that makes it so necessary?

It's why every dps wants to be the highest/every healer wants to be the healiest/every tank wants to be the tankiest- because if they aren't they say-

"What can I do that no one else can do that makes me worth taking"? In other words- what makes me a special snowflake and required?

In a completely balanced game- No one has something unique that makes them required.

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Really? Top tier dmg, burst dmg, CC, AoE, Apocotastasis/Virus/Eye for and Eye etc

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Originally Posted by Alu79

Really? Top tier dmg, burst dmg, CC, AoE, Apocotastasis/Virus/Eye for and Eye etc

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Summoner has that stuff, so does sch and whm (sch has improved eye)... Apoc, pfft no one is getting into raids on Apoc. So, if your raid needs CC, okay... I guess..whm could do it, but whatever. What about mnk/drg/summoner?

What do all of them do that is so special? Does every raid require 1 of each job? If that is the goal, then SCH are not alone- lots of jobs need thier special snowflake raid toy... because I am pretty sure there are 8 mans in coil without some jobs.

Sch need to be able to make 300 potency aoe heal per gcd back to back somehow. I think it is the minimum requirement for content to able to heal this much hp.

There is no justification for sch to be terrible aoe healer. Because sch is no way a better tank healer then whm or at least not enough for them to less then half aoe.

If sch was required for some battles in their current state then no buffs required but since they aren't and they may be worse then a 2nd whm in certain situations(hm titan,coil2) they need a buff to their major weakness.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

Sch need to be able to make 300 aoe heal per gcd somehow.

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Fair enough... is that the output required for fights? Or is that the output required for 2 SCH to complete a fight? If data shows that, then you have a case. Can't argue with facts.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Summoner has that stuff, so does sch and whm (sch has improved eye)... Apoc, pfft no one is getting into raids on Apoc. So, if your raid needs CC, okay... I guess. What about mnk/drg/summoner?

What do all of them do that is so special? Does every raiod require 1 of each job? If that is the goal, then SCH are not alone- lots of jobs need thier special snowflake raid toy... because I am pretty sure there are 8 mans in coil without some jobs.

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SMN/SCH do not have Burst dmg, CC or worth while AoE. SCH/SMN can spread 3 dots 3 times a minute at the expense of something else like Lustrate or Fester. If adds are clumped, they can drop Shadow Flare, which isn't amazing dmg, lets be honest. And if they are close enough to the mobs that need aoe'ing, they can Miasma 2 for even less amazing dmg. So, no SMN/SCH cannot do "all that" too. It is also besides the point, no one has asked to be a special snowflake. So I am not sure why you bring that up at all.

This entire thread is not about being a special snowflake, it is about parity. Patching up these glaring holes in our kit. We want to be as functional and capable as a WHM.

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Originally Posted by Alu79

This entire thread is not about being a special snowflake, it is about parity. Patching up these glaring holes in our kit. We want to be as functional and capable as a WHM.

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Well, that's your problem. Stop comparing yourself to whm and start providing real evidence that shows

1. What is required for scholar x 2 to successfully complete an encounter
2. Why the current build does not support the required output, or otherwise how the character design acts as a barrier to producing that output
3. Once you have proven change is required, offer suggestions on how to fix the data backed issue.

This thread is 32 pages long, and I haven't seen one serious post that included data! Even the WoW QQ forum posts had SOME data. There is already agreement that half the class needs fixing with the pet.