Character graphical changes are NOT in an acceptable state, please make it optional

Mooonkeeper Face4 Voice11 here. Some expressions changed, my character gained an eyeliner and lipstick. She also seems less expressive, with milder reactions.

Left: Endwalker, Right: Dawntrail Benchmark

Lost gap between lips, this was a defining setting in my character when changing lip sizes:
https://i.imgur.com/hEVcUpk.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/j1R6B3L.png

Smile changed from ^_^ to :-) I do prefer the Benchmark version, but the expression changed, which is sad
https://i.imgur.com/4DGfkDG.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/YrMNKKO.png

From an enraged miqo to a complaining karen miqo:
https://i.imgur.com/LGP1FvB.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/qSqQP4z.png

Fangs nerfed:
https://i.imgur.com/zotGyVt.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/WVi9YqG.png

From disappointed to afraid:
https://i.imgur.com/VQW5O2R.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/6tvjeB5.png

Mouth definitely way too big now:
https://i.imgur.com/VJXKt3r.png

So far I'm loving a lot of the changes, and all of the devs deserve props for the work they put into this so far! I'd say some of the features on FemRoe seemed a bit blurred, specifically the lips. Though from reading other comments, it seems like a lot of the lip shapes have changed significantly on other races, too. Specifically speaking on behalf of my Roe, I loved that her eyes were unique in the fact that she didn't have black pupils-but a faded, darker color of the eye color I selected. From what I know, all Roes had this feature about their eyes that I just adored. It really made them more than just a tall, buff Hyur. I have some pictures, though not the same angles, to show what I'm referring to! It would be great to see some work done on the lips and mouth animations to be more crisp and.. not blurry. And I'd love to see Roes have their unique pupils back! Aside from that,.. everything looks great :)

Pre-Dawntrail:
https://i.imgur.com/OE41ave.png
https://i.imgur.com/bslVb7M.png

Benchmark:
https://i.imgur.com/V4xCWIx.png
https://i.imgur.com/l2tmjSS.png

**Side note about the lips.. It also seems like they're a bit flattened out? The little peak at the upper lip is gone! Not a BIG deal.. but it would be nice to get the plumpness back in the lips of our characters!
https://i.imgur.com/umOtazW.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Endver

I understand the difference because I have a character close to that. As for the answers where people can't tell the difference, keep in mind that we all have different characters, and the changes that were made to YOURS will always seem heavier than to other characters. After years of playtime, you need to know every detail of your character's face, and that's why for us, this face and these eyes are so different. On other posts I also took screenshots for comparison. You can see the big differences with these if you choose the Gridania preset (in CC). But let me post these screens so maybe you all can understand what's wrong. Please look at the eye shape at the top, right corner:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...75ce5a0dd2c07&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...e5249c3672fab&

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I was struggling to see the difference as well so out of curiosity I took those images and made them into a gif.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...e5656f4460f66&

Seeing them on top of the each other it looks like the eye itself is pretty much identical. The eyelash is a bit thicker and the outside upper right corner of the skin surrounding the eye is pointed slightly lower than it was before.

The OP calling that "not remotely close" to the original seems like a stretch but everyone is free to draw their own conclusions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

I was struggling to see the difference as well so out of curiosity I took those images and made them into a gif.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...e5656f4460f66&

Seeing them on top of the each other it looks like the eye itself is pretty much identical. The eyelash is a bit thicker and the outside upper right corner of the skin surrounding the eye is pointed slightly lower than it was before.

The OP calling that "not remotely close" to the original seems like a stretch but everyone is free to draw their own conclusions.

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the new one the outer corner of the eye is lower (easy to tell looking at the space between the eyelashes and actual eyeball), and the inner corner is much more pointed and less rounded, and quite a bit shorter, and the actual eye is more open, leading it to look significantly larger and ovoid, if you aren't used to looking at the same character day in and day out, it might be harder to notice, but its not an "insignificant" change, because it affects the "mood" of the face, larger, more egg-shaped eyes give a different feeling than narrower sharper eyes.

I saw there was some discourse about my post yesterday and it's understandable especially since while to me this is a character I've looked at for years and yesterday it was a lot of people's first time seeing it so the differences are likely less apparant, so I'll give a short list of the changes as well as post a couple additional screenshots from the character screen to maybe better showcase how these small changes have altered the look of the character.

So on the new character:
-The eyebrows are much thinner and the ends go down more than on the current character
-The eyelashes are smaller, thicker, and the direction has changed
-The top of the eyelid is shaped to be more of an arc, the lateral canthus points down while the medial canthus has been shortened (idk the parts of the eyelid so I did just look this up so my bad if the naming is wrong)
-The bridge of the nose is thinner as well as the nostrils being lowered
-The top and bottom lips are different shapes, the upper lip has dips on the left and right that are no longer present, while the bottom lip is thinner and less rounded.
-The cheeks are thinner as well as the overall face being slightly squished.

The following screenshots are from minimum distance on the character screen;
https://i.imgur.com/FBSSj2q.png
https://i.imgur.com/yqLTa4X.png

Like I said before, I don't even think the character even looks necessarily bad, but this is like a mother and daughter, my character looks like she is 28 going on 15. When the goal of the graphics update for the characters was to be a recreation of the characters in a higher quality it's hard to not be disappointed when a character you have a connection to looks so different in your eyes. (And this is by far not the worst, I've seen some real horror on the jp forums)

It really feels like different people worked on different faces, because a lot of them are so close to the original it's striking but others have many details slightly changed to the point where the character as a whole is unrecognizable which is a real shame (Looking at male hyur) At this same time these characters are clearly unfinished, a lot of the hair isn't modeled fully yet, and this isn't something I expect them to fix overnight but you'd be surprised at how much they can fix in 2 and a half months (Especially when the jp forum complains) and even moreso going forward after the launch of the expansion.

it's important to get this feedback out there now so that they know about the issues so that they can at least choose whether or not they're going to work on them, from big things like mooncats losing their fangs and au ra scales being messed up, to smaller things like eyeliner not being in the proper places and the discoloration of certain facial features such as lalafell and roegadyn noses.

Anyway that's it for my rant, I'm going to get back to leveling my alt, I hope you all have a wonderful day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheDruidOcelot

the new one the outer corner of the eye is lower (easy to tell looking at the space between the eyelashes and actual eyeball), and the inner corner is much more pointed and less rounded, and quite a bit shorter, and the actual eye is more open, leading it to look significantly larger and ovoid, if you aren't used to looking at the same character day in and day out, it might be harder to notice, but its not an "insignificant" change, because it affects the "mood" of the face, larger, more egg-shaped eyes give a different feeling than narrower sharper eyes.

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Yes, absolutely. For me, nothing has ever been more important than the eyes when it comes to creating a character. Whether in a game or with a pen, the choice of eye shape is incredibly decisive when you want to give a good expression to your character. And I understand that people can't really tell that there's a big difference here. Really, I understand because I feel about the same with others. But I assure you all that this is not an exaggeration at all. This little adjustment to the shape of the eyes honestly and truly gives us the feeling that these are no longer the faces we had.

Now, personally, and about some other answers here, I can't play an MMORPG if I don't like my character. And here, this is the character I loved playing for years. So, yes, indeed, it is a sensitive subject for almost everyone, but that does not necessarily imply a systematically dishonest and disproportionate reaction. That's why we're here, right? We're trying to move in the right direction together :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Endver

Yes, absolutely. For me, nothing has ever been more important than the eyes when it comes to creating a character. Whether in a game or with a pen, the choice of eye shape is incredibly decisive when you want to give a good expression to your character. And I understand that people can't really tell that there's a big difference here. Really, I understand because I feel about the same with others. But I assure you all that this is not an exaggeration at all. This little adjustment to the shape of the eyes honestly and truly gives us the feeling that these are no longer the faces we had.

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even with adjustments amounting to at most a millimeter in any one direction make HUGE differences on parts of a model as small as an eye, and it just rankles me that people are going "but it looks exactly the same tho" cause it uh. it doesn't. maybe they're just not used to looking at changes that "seem" small, but... its not really small in how much it affects.

I'm really sad and sorry that the proported "graphical update" has been so beyond lackluster for so many. the disappointment is palpable, and the expansion won't be out for months still.

I've been compiling alot of things regarding Miqo Keeper Face 4 specifically with mouth(1) Eyes (2) Eyebrows (4) Nose (4)
I'll get around to organizing the pictures and posting it later today when I figure out how uploading works on this forum.

Before [
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...1f511da20c94e&

After [
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...3b310039ae745&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...b35fabe9c647e&

Things I noticed
= Eyes on Eye No.2 has higher lashes density at the corners, very akin to fake lashes. Which goes contrary to the original eyes No.2 as they have really subtle eyelashes and don't give off the 'glamourous' look. The up side, is that I actually like the long lashes, I wish they weren't so dense.
= Eyeliner is too intense in the Benchmark while the original doesn't have anywhere as heavy of an eyeliner, which gives a different look.
= Eyebrows No.4 Softened up- needs to be shades darker than the hair to slightly pop- some skin color/hair combos will look bad I think- I have light skin so it's okay.
= New Eyeshine looks really pretty but when it's absent it looks really horrific.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...1da5fbdf9a128&

Nose Type 4.
= Nose smudge is greatly reduced/faded which is the defining feature of Face 4.
= Nose job- thinning of the nose bridge (?) and straightening up of the nose profile. [I really liked that nose because it wasn't straight and I thought that 'flaw' was really cute and charming, sad to see it go...]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...1aff28470a88f&

Mouth Type 1.
Honestly, I have so much issues with this I might cry
= Cupid's Bow is totally a different shape between current vs benchmark, with the benchmark throwing subtly out of the window and giving a harsh 'v' shape.
= Cupid's Bow catches light too often and leads to a glossy/doll look.
= Philtrum went from being subtle to being more pronounced.
= Mouth lost its original shape/charm- no longer has that soft/blended innocent look.
= No lipstick option has a sheen/glossy finish and nowehere near light/pink as the original was.
= Corners of the mouth catch way too much light which stick too much and adds to that doll look.
= Please return my girl's fangs back, thanks.
= Parted lips are gone which I found charming...

Skin
I have so many issues with the skin, the current skin doesn't look too different under different lights however Benchmark skin feels as if it's absorbing the surrounding light and reflecting it. I don't think someone's skin color changes hues that much. I feel like despite using the same skintone, my character looks yellowish/green in certain lighting situation. It feels like my character is abit like a lamp or a wax candle and the light is shining THROUGH her.

Only Benchmark shots for now..
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...d1a01bbb73390&


I feel really discouraged by this...It's not the end of the world for me but I'd be really happy if the mouth issues are at least resolved...I really miss my girl's nose and parted lips and cute nose smudge.. She looked so innocent and delicate. I loved her little 'flaws', it saddens me to see them "fixed" maybe her cute bumpy nose was just a symptom of low polygons and her parted lips some kind of mistake oTL but I really loved it...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheDruidOcelot

I'm really sad and sorry that the proported "graphical update" has been so beyond lackluster for so many. the disappointment is palpable, and the expansion won't be out for months still.

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Won't be out for months and yet suddenly feels like it's coming all too soon if we really are locked into this course. Less than three months left to play with these characters as I know them.

It has turned the wait for Dawntrail from anticipation to dread.

I really think this is just the tip of the iceberg for criticism over the graphics update.

Only a small fraction of the player base has actually used the benchmark. Some aren't able to, most don't even know it exists. Heck, I bet most players probably haven't even watched any fanfest footage of them showing off the best examples of the new changes.