Things to think about before you call someone "Bad"

5,000k DPS.....is trash tier...?

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Originally Posted by ko_

To be extremely fair 5k anything is far beyond trash and you know it. Come back at me when you do 1.3k in there. Then you're trash mo.

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Just calling it as I see it for myself. Almost two years in, and this is my best? Not a good look, y'know lol

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Wow 5k is not trash in this tier. It's not amazing, but it's certainly not trash. Depending on the class, the gear, the fight, party make-up and whether it's with a pug group or not, it could be seen as fairly decent. You'd be doing similar or better dps than high percentile tanks. If you're able to do mechanics correctly on top of that...no you're not trash. Just unremarkable.

Come back when you do actual trash dps and try to tell us that "these so-called elitists" don't exist.

Don't worry, we'll wait :P



That is just one example of many as to why someone could get kicked. They might because they don't do mechanics properly. Also you don't always need a parser to see whenever someone does bad dps. If you're familiar with the class you can spot some signs such as missing buffs/dots/seeing animations for abilities that appear casted at the wrong time/etc. I seriously doubt anyone needs a parser to spot the dreaded ice blm or a bard who never uses songs.

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To be fair, the ice black mage has been debunked because they are capable now of hitting 4.6k just by rotating between thunder casts and B3/B4. And my numbers are with my static - marking me as a definite weak link that I need to fix. Why is everybody jumping up in arms against my post - I was using myself as a prime example against the person I was responding to. I didn't say that these so-called elitists don't exist, but I am saying that they aren't in the overwhelming numbers that people like to say are everywhere, especially when they are sharing sentiments that the entire raid community is like this.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

5,000k DPS.....is trash tier...?

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When you are me, when you have been raiding since Deltascape and have been playing since 3.56...then yeah, I would assume that anybody with a right mind would consider that my absolute best at 5k on ninja would mark me as a trash player. Not saying everybody else pulling 5k is trash...but I can understand the sentiment that people say I'm a bad raider.

Why is it a problem that I'm labeling myself as such, even when talking about just myself?

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Just calling it as I see it for myself. Almost two years in, and this is my best? Not a good look, y'know lol



To be fair, the ice black mage has been debunked because they are capable now of hitting 4.6k just by rotating between thunder casts and B3/B4. And my numbers are with my static - marking me as a definite weak link that I need to fix. Why is everybody jumping up in arms against my post - I was using myself as a prime example against the person I was responding to. I didn't say that these so-called elitists don't exist, but I am saying that they aren't in the overwhelming numbers that people like to say are everywhere, especially when they are sharing sentiments that the entire raid community is like this.



When you are me, when you have been raiding since Deltascape and have been playing since 3.56...then yeah, I would assume that anybody with a right mind would consider that my absolute best at 5k on ninja would mark me as a trash player. Not saying everybody else pulling 5k is trash...but I can understand the sentiment that people say I'm a bad raider.

Why is it a problem that I'm labeling myself as such, even when talking about just myself?

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I think people might have taken it the wrong way. If you're talking about yourself and your personal expectations no one could, or should, judge. But at first I myself was under the impression that you were generalizing. If you weren't, that's fine, but I can see where it might have been lost in translation.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Just calling it as I see it for myself. Almost two years in, and this is my best? Not a good look, y'know lol

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You know what mo... You need that icecream. And I need your 5k I'm over here busting my dummy at home trying to stay within 5.6k on my monk and sam. Come to my server on an alt tomorrow and I'll show you a bad DPS :D - I have a house tho. >.>

5,000K makes you average, not trash though...

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

To be fair, the ice black mage has been debunked because they are capable now of hitting 4.6k just by rotating between thunder casts and B3/B4. And my numbers are with my static - marking me as a definite weak link that I need to fix. Why is everybody jumping up in arms against my post - I was using myself as a prime example against the person I was responding to. I didn't say that these so-called elitists don't exist, but I am saying that they aren't in the overwhelming numbers that people like to say are everywhere, especially when they are sharing sentiments that the entire raid community is like this.

When you are me, when you have been raiding since Deltascape and have been playing since 3.56...then yeah, I would assume that anybody with a right mind would consider that my absolute best at 5k on ninja would mark me as a trash player. Not saying everybody else pulling 5k is trash...but I can understand the sentiment that people say I'm a bad raider.

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Don't get me wrong, if you're in the 9th percentile as a nin in savage that means you've got some room to improve. In savage. That doesn't mean you need to be so hard on yourself, though, because if you're just getting a clear without being carried in savage you're already ahead of probably 90% of the playerbase. Hell, being this self-conscious of your damage might even be doing more harm than good this early in the cycle. Since you're not at 1% with 3000 damage, you're not being carried, especially if you're going full party utility mode. #Sorrrynotsorry.

As for ice mage, what that reddit post entailed was a very bored (with experience) black mage seeing how far they could push an ice rotation for the luls. That's not the typical, and legendary, ice mage you'd find lazily 121212121212ing in Duty Finder. I would kill for a guarantee for every black mage I come across to hit 4k, but that's just not how it goes. And the weakest ones typically show up where their damage is needed most, such as on the Mist Dragon or during big pulls in Poo Palace.

Heck, any DPS class hitting 4k is a pleasant surprise in typical content. It's not "good" damage and it's not "high" damage. It might even be "low" damage. But it's an amount of damage that shows you don't stand in bad, you push buttons (though maybe not in the right order) and you're paying attention. That's it.

That's all I ask for.

And then the forums riot.

I mean, my Sigmascape isn't all that perfect either Kaiva since I don't have any logs for the current tier yet as it's still a WIP, but I consider myself to be at least average and not trash with 5k.

Trash is like 3k or something >_>;

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

Honestly where does this happen? I'm in things on patch morning for quite a few patches now and I've never seen someone behave this way. I've never even seen a guide brought up other than some people asking the party if they know of a good guide for a given fight yet.

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Seen such behavior once since 2.0.
Was in 2.55 with that last story trial of ARR, have managed to forget the name of the fight.
It was on patch day and I as usual did all the story content in order to unlock things and get things out of the way, during the first pull one of the dps started screaming about how things should be done, and we wipes since it was the first pull anyone of us had done in this trial. Second pull and this... person decides to insult everyone just as the pull starts. After the second pull he leaves, think we cleared it after we got a new person in there. To top that of his ideas for how to clear the trial was wrong.
Having taking note of this players name and quickly taken screenshots of his insults I reported him. Add to this all that this person did really shitty dps and messed up more then the others.

So while it is extremely rare, I know that it can happen, just takes a special sort of... creature to make it happen.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

I mean, my Sigmascape isn't all that perfect either Kaiva since I don't have any logs for the current tier yet as it's still a WIP, but I consider myself to be at least average and not trash with 5k.

Trash is like 3k or something >_>;

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I'mma hold my 1.3k with pride. - holds it with extreme pride.-

I suppose I set myself up for questioning when I responded in the manner that I did. It's no lie that I feel that my grey parses are garbage. That's why I am incredibly hard on myself. I have to be, otherwise, what is the point of me even raiding?

Week 2, and I'm only pulling 5k with no deaths means that I am still screwing up in my eyes. I have an incredibly bad tendency to 'shoot from the hip' when it comes to snap responses without fully conveying what I mean, and in this case, I am not saying that 5k is a trash tier - I am, and have been saying, that as a player, I have been a trash tier player because I have experience in raiding, and because I have known other raiders and because I am in a static.

When wrapping all of that up (the raiding experiences, who I have played with overall, my general knowledge of fights themselves), yes, it is inexcusable for me to only be just a low grey parse. I wanted the person I was responding to to explain why I haven't met any of these so-called elitists? I have had recent parties that did warn and then kick for low DPS - yet even though parsers were being run, I was not, at any point, a person subject to scrunity during these runs. So I want them to explain to me how come when I fit the profile of 'not pulling my weight', I don't get kicked? Because again, I don't use my Kaiva/Areya avatar, so the excuse that people know me from the forums doesn't fly here, because my main is mostly unknown (unless you're in my discord). If these so-called elitists exist, where are they in the PFs that I often join?