As has jumping, unit frames, action bars and pure vs hybrid rhetoric.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gramul
I've always wanted a little of both. My perfect MMORPG has FF storylines and jobs, and WoW class dynamics and encounter mechanics. SE has the potential to give me both of these things with XIV.Quote:
If players want WOW type basic questing, stories, and depth, then there is wow. IF they want FF story, lore and depth, then their is FF.
Now you're using a variant of the "omg if t3h contenz iz 2 ez peeple r leev3" garbage. As someone who has been around the block, I'll tell you this: people don't leave because of lack of content or getting everything done quickly. People leave because: a) they get sick of ongoing problems in the game despite bringing it to the attention of the creators (Cataclysm's broken PvP and Warhammer Online's Bright Wizard fiasco come to mind), b) stagnation in overall development (post-WotG FFXI being the posterchild of this), c) idiotic changes and overhauls for the sake of changing things (Cataclysm's class design and balance being the perfect example), d) utter lack of foresight accompanied with complete disregard for the playerbase (one of the big problems in Old Republic).Quote:
Sure with GW2 there is more challenges out there. With other upcoming titles as well. What can not happen is please WOW players over FF supproters and fans when WOW players more likely are not going to stick by them and have expectations.
If 2.0 launches with minimal problems or at least as best as it can, and SE plays their cards right by marketting and advertising the hell out of 2.0, I think it'll be fine. If 2.0 comes out with the 1-50 quest climb and no endgame at all, broken PvP and buggy gameplay, it'll die a second death.
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08-30-2012, 06:52 AMDuelle
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08-30-2012, 07:56 AMkazaran
I've probably been around the block a bit more. Even before the WWW was main stream, I played early versions of MMo's, even tho texted based and 2d simpliifed. I've seen the evolution from the core. Even before Ultima was concidered the new revolution.
You can capture new base withotu sacrificing, and trying to be more liek WOW would not be an evoltuion in MMO's butt stepping backwards. To many are on an outdated wow kick. To pull gamers from it, it needs to offer something new, not old. To be different, refreshing. To remain Final Fantasy, which it has been made clear, is the priority, and Yoshida has stated that clearly, that they will not sacrifice the core of what it is, even if they may adapt some minor aspects from other titles mechanics.
They are also not trying to have the same generic user base. OR loose fans of Final Fantasy to become something else.
He also has clearly stated loosing fans trust was the issue and regaininng it is their priority. It's ok to balance things, ad a bit of other games, but straight up copyign to much would damage the franchise and they won't do that to please another fan base. Peopel who enjoy final Fantasy stories and style come to play for that reason.
UI familiarlarity would be nice, but many games use that now. However a clean, functional UI would work better.
Raids need to evolve. CHallenge needs to evolve, not to hard for everyone with alternatives to getting gear over time, and not easy, easy is a bore.
AI must be strong, not basic like WOW. SMarter then rifts. XI offfered challenge in the old days, but the past coupel years it was toned down to please casual gamers, and it took away from the difficulty to much. Mobs no longer tracked great distances, were not ahrd to shake. Except a few. It's liek someoen turned off their brains.
I wouldn't midn a system where you ran raids, got coins, traded for gear. Then retraded gear with more coins or items to upgrade the gear to the next tier. Requirign you to have the orginal set. THen at the third tier, materia or stats could be further added for it's full potential.
WOW is old. SUre it still has a large fan base that jsut settles for what it is because so many friends play it. YEt some peopel want new, and still want FInal FAntasy, not wow, not EQ, not rift, but their lore. XI is old as well, there are aspects that shoudl return fro ma previous FF game to XIV, and others that jsut didn't work out that certainly need to not be concidered.
Any way it is still FFXIV, and wantign to please WOW gamers and make it like wow is NOT a smart idea, let blizzard make their new title. Their is more pressure on them to do just that. Hopefully They will evolve and not jst have a graphically better version of the current game, but some real nice story elements. -
08-30-2012, 01:02 PMXxOstiaxX
Kaz.... Seriously let's talk facts only :cool:
If there where millions upon millions and MILLIONS! Of people that only wanted to play a Final Fantasy Online! Guess what ? They would have played FFXI! Surprise! They did NOT!
Final Fantasy has sold over 100 MILLION Copy's! Yet their MMO version only saw up to 500 THOUSAND! Guess what % is that ? ONLY from the Final Fantasy Fan Base ? Sure you can say that MMO'S where not "Cool" or "Mainstream"(Even tho EQ brought the MMO Genre to the mainstream before WoW ever did) but for argument sake, lets say it was like that, fast foward to 2010.... FFXIV Releases..... And it only shipped 650K copies... NOT EVEN SOLD! Just shipped, Out of 100 Million people that have ever bought a final fantasy tittle only less than 400 thousand bought the online version.....
See SE cannot even sell Final Fantasy Online with Brand Name alone..... They sold XIII and XIII-2 by pure brand name... yet their online version was passed... Wonder why ?
Maybe most final fantasy fans just DO NOT GIVE A FLYING ***** About final fantasy online ? I mean they have tried 2 times... and both cannot compare to an offline Final Fantasy as far as sales and support from the fan base, even when MMOS have been doing really great. Makes you think huh ? :rolleyes: -
08-30-2012, 01:14 PMStarlord
Well regardless if it's only 2 million 500k.. heck even 250k is a decent size population for an MMO, as long as they sell and retain at least 250k out of those who buy, then this game will be successful. It doesn't matter if those who don;t buy it because its online, because Online isn't for everyone. FF has always been Offline till XI came along and then XIV.. but Offline MMOs just seem to be more popular over the MMO market, however, like I said if they can retain 250k subs then this game will be alright to stand on its own 2 feet and be successful.
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08-30-2012, 01:57 PMXxOstiaxX
See here is where you, SE, and myself Disagree. SE from the get go did not want a FFXI-2, that is a fact, we can talk and guess all we want, but they did not intend XIV to be a XI-2 Period. They wanted to compete, in fact they even said it themselves "The new FF will compete with the likes of WOW and the new starwars MMO", they did not spend tens and tens of millions of dollars to create a MMO, just to cater to the XI type of player, sorry that is not the case at all, and the sooner some of us realize that, the better we will be off. Now can XIV be successful with 250K ? Yes, but that would be way in the long run, as XI did in the meanwhile it will be looked upon as another failure, while games like Swotor(Even if it does goes FP, they have already made a killing on boxes and months of having 1 million + subs) GW2(Alone had 1+million Pre-orders and has had a very successful launch) Pandaria wich will sell millions of copies, and revitalize the wow population again(As it has been the case every single time) will have 100% more success than SE will with the XI outdated model. Yoshi who i do not agree most of the time with on how he does things, see's this and has stated that he wants to bring more Final Fantasy to the game, while at the same time, bringing the game up to par with the current generation of MMOS..... On that i agree with him, i just don't like what his "Bringing more Final Fantasy to the game" means, for what i have seen is just simply to take something from a FF game and transplant it into this one w/o any regard to lore or mechanics, to me every single final fantasy is different from the previews one, and only battle mechanics, and characters like CID, Moogles, summons etc etc have been transfered over, but when you start taking elements of the main series and just patching them up like an abomination together and call it "Final Fantasy" that is just wrong.
Will 2.0 be a success ? Who knows, from my point of view, they have failed on their so called flood, as the underdog, they had to outdo everybody in every department, this whole secrecy and playing down because they are flat out scared about what the public might or might not especulate is pretty damm stupid, when 99% of the MMO Community sees this game as a joke(And yes they did win that w/e award nobody cares for i know).
What i want to see from him and his game, is BALLS! I want him to answer tough question, or just answer them, w/o dancing around in every interview and telling "Well you gonna have to wait yet again, i cannot talk on this or that or that other stuff my player base wants to know" I want him to tell us: "Hey! Pvp wont be at released, because we want to make sure that when we release it, it will be as balanced as possible, we are also working on battlegrounds, and this is what they are gonna work, and there he goes and lays down a plan and a vision we can get behind" Same with PVE: "Crystal tower will not be on release, and what i mean by that is, the finished version of what i envision crystal tower to be, will not be released when 2.0 launches, whoever the istance/raid itself will be launching on 2.0 and players can explore and tackle up to X number of floors, where at reaching X level of the tower, they will face a very fun and dynamic boss fight, that will reward players for their efforts, my vision of crystal tower is an evolving one, with us adding content every Y amount of time, but do not worry, for the game will launch with Y number of NEW dungeons, all different from one another, and will have to be tackled differently from each other, also the old dungeons will be transfered with an entire overhaul to match the new storyline."
Something like that, see that is what i want from him, some vision, a GOAL! Not "Sorry cannot talk just hope this is not just a map overhaul and we call it GG". -
08-30-2012, 10:23 PMFF4ever
@OP OR who!
ur post is rather two sided u start off with yeah id like 80% casual content. then u finish with there will be no long term enjoyment if casual
1st With all due respect ffxiv will never be a wow clone. if u want to play wow then go play wow. SE has
been making rpg's 25+ years, wow clone? naa not likely.
2nd As far as casual content goes. casual players arnt built for mmo's. thats a fact! if ur going to whine
and cry about grinding u shouldnt be on an mmo, u might as well go on COD and complain about haveing to shoot at stuff. yeah thats about how stupid it is to complain about grind in a mmo, it makes no sence, there are plenty of games u can play and finish in 4 hours or so that can maintain ur "casual play".
3rd im a xi vet. atm xiv is crazy easy, and u know what? ppl still complain, lvlin on xiv is no where as long as xi u know why xi has been running for years. it wasnt built over night. no casual player or hardcore player will have a good time in the short run right? so how are you going to have a longrun if every thing is casual and then u say content shouldnt be spead up, well guess what if everything is casually short thats what is going to be needed " moar content" other wise ppl will be complaining. "they have nothing to do"
the ppl with the dedication to appreciate the system of xi was the hardcore players.
you want casual? play xiii xiii-2 skyrim, mmo's arnt built for casual players, you can play but you cant get mad at someone else who plays regularly and has items in the game that the casual player will have to turn to a regular player to get but refuses bc of "grind",
Hell! This is why i play! -
08-30-2012, 10:49 PMStarlordMeh I didn't care to read the whole thing but I will respond to this line in particular. 80 some comments out of like 200k+ Votes (just assume 200k did vote) doesn't Constitute that "Nobody care" and 1/4th were Surprised 1/4th thinks this game deserves it, and 1/2 are troll responses ( Out of the 80 or so comments). So in the end, Neither of us can say that the Award is pointless or not.Quote:
And yes they did win that w/e award nobody cares for i know
Anyways this is the last thing I will respond to in this thread since "Wow clones or clones in General is just a silly topic to talk about) :P. -
08-30-2012, 11:00 PMFF4everQuote:
Originally Posted by kazaran
as anyone who has played xiv can see there is no copying! of story>monsters>areas or content, SE is origanal and has good writers and dev;s we know this.... as far as the UI im glad its being adapted mayhaps the wow heads will be quite now xD lol but haveing a universal UI is nothing new and no where near copying, battlefield 3 COD and MW have simular UI's it makes it easyer for the fps freaks to play all the fps GEN's without complaining about and haveing to learn a new UI setup ......
as far as raid's if u played xi u know SE knows how to set up raid/EndGame content.. its nothing new! dynamis sky>sea>nyzul isle> all epic EndGame and Raid content on xi. -
08-31-2012, 08:50 AMkazaran
Ostia.
No FF fan gives about WOW, Blizzard and how many players they have. Some gamers don't like WOW. FFXI for those of us who have played for years, includign BEFORE WOW EVER EXISTED. Understand. Those of us like myself who have played wow, through all the expansions, don't want FFXIV to be like WOW. THe differences are why we play BOTH. If we want more WOW, we wil go play WOW for those periods we need that fix. Nto a WOW clone, or WOW wannaabe.
There are plenty of issues with WOW, and issues that should NEVER be copied.
There are good aspects in WOW, that can be adapted, but should be improved apon since WOW itself is outdated, and even blizzard knows the time has come for a new title and engine so they can expand it.
IF gamers want better graphics, deeper stories, and a new MMO they can try XIV, if they don't like it they can play WOW, GW2, RIFT, or many other titles to get somethign different. THe old days of XI could be very intense, and I had to take months off to chill from it, and play WOW, AION (GAG) and other games.
They were different, so it was a nice change. FF is very different, and needs to remain unique. Sure toss in Jump, but make it functional, and not a gimick.
Change to UI to be familiar to other MMO's, but make it more functional and not a mess. Functional over a jumbled boxed mess. Short keys over clicking. Fade out to not obstruct from the deeper story elements in FF games.
XIV is low right now becuase it is beign redone. There is alot missing from it. It can be a tad easy and needs the hardcore aspect (but not rediculous aspects) to return. More depth, more stats, and fun challenges for your groups. Not just a typical, over done, same old same old Raids. Varied quests that take you around the world, and not just around the corner of the map. The leves are a msall portion of the game. You can level by leve or small quest, grind, or combo in with larger story missions. Other jobs is more borign because you can't repeat all of the reg quests (can in other regions however).
Yoshida want to apeal to othe r gamers but he sated "We must make it up to the fans of Final Fantasy".
THe failure was due to the engien used (based on CHrystal tools) which is nto sutable for MMO's but was meant for XIII and XIII-2.
The same as they took the new upcoming engine, had that team take aspects of it, and redesign it for the purpose of an MMO. It is us fans, that were the most dissappointed, and loudest to shout "WTF!"
As well as give them support, to stick through it with them, and help it grow. While they may want to apeal to others, those others who are so stuck on WOW, are not the ones that will stick it through. -
08-31-2012, 10:16 AMXxOstiaxXDude... That is what we have been trying to tell you all along.... Are you kidding me ?Quote:
Originally Posted by kazaran