The feeling of beeing Home ...

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

The Ascians didn't even have a story until ShB, which was just one expansion ago. They're also part of the foundational lore of the world, which was unceremoniously rushed in EW. Instead of answering everything, I have even more questions and it's frustrating that because it seems like Yoshi-P (who admits his own staff would like more Ancients) wants to be done with them they'll never be addressed.

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The Ascians had a story before 5.0: it was just bad. The writers spent four prior releases setting up "generic bad guys doing generic bad guy things", and held fast to that direction until deciding to pivot towards "but what if they actually had good-ish reasons?". It sucks that we only got one full expansion to develop them as true characters, but that's SE's fault, and it doesn't erase the stuff before it or the idea that it was probably past time to move on from them.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

This is hardly a defense as to why the quality of .1 and .2 MSQs should be like this. The playerbase deserves better.

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The 0.1 and 0.2 patches have historically been the ones that were story-lite because they introduce other big things in the expansion, such as Eureka or Bozja. With their time and energy being used to make sure these launch as successfully as possible, other content might take a hit. Only so many man hours they can put into the game, after all.

In addition, if every single MSQ bit is a high point, there would be no lows...sometimes you need to just deal with cleanup.

To be fair, while I'm not a fan of where the story is going 6.x, I appreciate the effort put into it.

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

The Ascians had a story before 5.0: it was just bad. The writers spent four prior releases setting up "generic bad guys doing generic bad guy things", and held fast to that direction until deciding to pivot towards "but what if they actually had good-ish reasons?". It sucks that we only got one full expansion to develop them as true characters, but that's SE's fault, and it doesn't erase the stuff before it or the idea that it was probably past time to move on from them.

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Eh, even though they weren't fleshed out they were still entertaining to some of us even back then. It was a reasonable assumption that in a JRPG the 'generic bad guys' would eventually get a sympathetic story and some nuance...which is exactly what we ended up getting.

I liked Elidibus a lot based on his no nonsense approach and stoic, cold mannerisms. Seeing Nabriales score a kill and slaughter Moenbryda also made the game feel like it had some teeth. Same goes for when the base in Vesper Bay was attacked and our character returned just in time to witness the aftermath.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

If there are any edgy pro-Venat comics with WoL going into "Hydaelyn Trance", I haven't seen any.

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I don't even look for Venat/Hydaelyn fanart and I've seen plenty of cringey comics with her and Azem/WoL.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Eh, even though they weren't fleshed out they were still entertaining to some of us even back then.

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All the more reason it'd be valid to feel it's time to move on from them as antagonists, then.

Frankly, I'd rather they do it before they wind up ruining them with overexposure. In my opinion, Endwalker kind of did that already.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Eh, even though they weren't fleshed out they were still entertaining to some of us even back then. It was a reasonable assumption that in a JRPG the 'generic bad guys' would eventually get a sympathetic story and some nuance...which is exactly what we ended up getting.

I liked Elidibus a lot based on his no nonsense approach and stoic, cold mannerisms. Seeing Nabriales score a kill and slaughter Moenbryda also made the game feel like it had some teeth. Same goes for when the base in Vesper Bay was attacked and our character returned just in time to witness the aftermath.

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That's an interesting way to say an injured Moenbryda sacrificed herself to kill him rather than let him flee.

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Originally Posted by thegreatonemal

That's an interesting way to say an injured Moenbryda sacrificed herself to kill him rather than let him flee.

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lol, we know what he meant;

2.0 and 3.0 the game had some teeth. There were very real stakes and major allies died. What a time to be alive in the game.

So yall don't think Stormblood, shadowbringers and Endwalker didn't have teeth because a minor character didn't die? First off plenty have died. Second character death is a fairly cheap way to tell a story. That death and the one in 3.0 were so impactful because we weren't expecting them. You can't really repeat it over and over and expect it to have the same effect, not when this community is constantly raising death flags with every trailer.

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Originally Posted by thegreatonemal

You can't really repeat it over and over and expect it to have the same effect, not when this community is constantly raising death flags with every trailer.

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Yeah, this is actually really true. That's one of the problems that later seasons of Game of Thrones had; characters were dying just to fulfill the usual "shocking death" quota, no matter little sense the death or the actions which led up to said death made. (Varys, my poor sweet summer child.)

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Originally Posted by thegreatonemal

So yall don't think Stormblood, shadowbringers and Endwalker didn't have teeth because a minor character didn't die? First off plenty have died. Second character death is a fairly cheap way to tell a story. That death and the one in 3.0 were so impactful because we weren't expecting them. You can't really repeat it over and over and expect it to have the same effect, not when this community is constantly raising death flags with every trailer.

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At the same time, playing off people's emotions by repeatedly "killing" off the same character is a cheap way to tell a story. Plot armor gets really really tiresome. You can 100% have impactful and meaningful deaths of important characters as we have seen in the past. The issue is that they have made systems that require those characters to be alive now, so in my mind it is impossible for a main character to actually die anymore so any attempt at it feels even cheaper.