The harp is a lie.

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

It's no different than your speculation of what might happen. You, me, everyone is spouting what they think is about to occur (and we're probably all making asses of ourselves when we discover we had it wrong).

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This is true, but I do place a heavy difference between speculating for speculation's sake, and speculating for the purpose of harshly judging and talking smack. Ruins the fun of the speculation to begin with, imho.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Yet?

You're comparing the abilities you THINK a class AND it's job will have against the basics of what the classes we already have exhibit alone (without their jobs).

I find that to skew the perception of the situation in the other direction. There's no accurate measurement for any of that until we can test it ourselves.

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do you really think another class will get throwing weapon abilities? or just devils advocate

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

This is true, but I do place a heavy difference between speculating for speculation's sake, and speculating for the purpose of harshly judging and talking smack. Ruins the fun of the speculation to begin with, imho.

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Im speculating to look at the system they are presenting, and seeing possible issues with it, so that hopefully these issues are addressed. If bard is really getting access to ranged weapons, close weapons and a buff/magic harp, i hope the other classes get access to a bit more than throwing weapons, which do nothing special, and cost a lot.

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Originally Posted by Physic

Im speculating to look at the system they are presenting, and seeing possible issues with it, so that hopefully these issues are addressed. If bard is really getting access to ranged weapons, close weapons and a buff/magic harp, i hope the other classes get access to a bit more than throwing weapons, which do nothing special, and cost a lot.

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While I think about the first question for a minute, can you clarify for me what the close weapon is that barcher would theoretically have access to?

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

This is true, but I do place a heavy difference between speculating for speculation's sake, and speculating for the purpose of harshly judging and talking smack. Ruins the fun of the speculation to begin with, imho.

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Even when it gets ridiculous where you see /wristing over unfounded fears, at least it reveals what's valued for gameplay in this community. And hopefully, it also dispels some of the myths that casual players just want instant gratification or hardcore players want to live in a basement and shut out the world.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

While I think about the first question for a minute, can you clarify for me what the close weapon is that barcher would theoretically have access to?

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my bad thought you mentioned dagger, that was someone else, regardless, archer is basically stealing the musician class stuff, probably some of the stuff that was in the dats. Its not guaranteed, heck they harp on the bow may not be utilizable, but really its kind of a problem imo, to shift archer into a different job, for the reasons i mentioned.

like i have said, it would be all good if it was a job unlocked by 2 classes, one archer one musician, but without that base class, it doesnt make a lot of sense. Its like they level up and get access to a whole different class, Whereas no one else seems to from what we have seen so far.

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Originally Posted by Physic

Its like they level up and get access to a whole different class, Whereas no one else seems to from what we have seen so far.

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Imo, that perception depends entirely on how they present the storyline. Remember that future generations of players won't be sporadically introduced to jobs after having been with classes for a year, they'll be leveling both up simultaneously. If the series of Job Quests provided to the possible Barcher clearly create a link between minstrels and a preference for fighting from afar while they support their team, I don't think the class will be as schizophrenic as people are claiming it is. It'll be a clear part of Eorzea's lore - get a bow, hang out with the bowyers of the wood, get introduced to music along the way, evolve both together, be awesome at a little DD here, a little buff there -- COR stuff. But new and exciting.

Other jobs might come with surprises, too. Team Yoshida does love holding that little something back, don't they? Batraal comes to mind.

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

Even when it gets ridiculous where you see /wristing over unfounded fears, at least it reveals what's valued for gameplay in this community. And hopefully, it also dispels some of the myths that casual players just want instant gratification or hardcore players want to live in a basement and shut out the world.

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I think those myths are dispelled after a few rounds of the passionate topics. "The Casuals" want to be able to experience as much of the game as possible while maintaining their work, school, and relationship responsibilities, while "The Hardcore" hope that their not having to dedicate much time to any of those entitles them to a level of in-game achievement that can never be attained by those who don't put in the unrealistic amount of hours. In this, "The Casuals" hope to defeat the very purpose that keeps subscription based games in business, while "The Hardcore" devalue the spirit of a game itself by measuring in-game worth by how many players their achievements are denied. Most importantly, these two groups make up the top and bottom 20% of a bell curve, leaving most players lost in the middle of "don't really give a shit if I'm having a good time."

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Originally Posted by Physic

my bad thought you mentioned dagger, that was someone else, regardless, archer is basically stealing the musician class stuff, probably some of the stuff that was in the dats. Its not guaranteed, heck they harp on the bow may not be utilizable, but really its kind of a problem imo, to shift archer into a different job, for the reasons i mentioned.

like i have said, it would be all good if it was a job unlocked by 2 classes, one archer one musician, but without that base class, it doesnt make a lot of sense. Its like they level up and get access to a whole different class, Whereas no one else seems to from what we have seen so far.

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Just wait to see what will happen to Conjurer. There's a tempest in a teacup waiting to happen :p

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I think those myths are dispelled after a few rounds of the passionate topics. "The Casuals" want to be able to experience as much of the game as possible while maintaining their work, school, and relationship responsibilities, while "The Hardcore" hope that their not having to dedicate much time to any of those entitles them to a level of in-game achievement that can never be attained by those who don't put in the unrealistic amount of hours. In this, "The Casuals" hope to defeat the very purpose that keeps subscription based games in business, while "The Hardcore" devalue the spirit of a game itself by measuring in-game worth by how many players their achievements are denied. Most importantly, these two groups make up the top and bottom 20% of a bell curve, leaving most players lost in the middle of "don't really give a shit if I'm having a good time."

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Again i will use Disgaea which is labeled as a "hardcore" game, at least post game being hardcore.

I work a 40 hour job that requires mandatory overtime, along with balancing my friends with my girl friend which i live with, along with my normal responsibilities and yet! i still not only got to all of Disgeas end game or post game content but i for the most part completed it putting in well over 200 hours.

I don't have much time to game yet i still love me some "hardcore" games and if the game is enjoyable enough and challenging, then i will invest my time in it.

Edit: I know Disgaea is not a good comparison based on genre, however I'm basing it on hours played and the term "hardcore" content.

Who said anything about Bard getting a dagger? Where are you guys pulling this stuff from?

Bard will simply have a bowharp/lyrebow. Plain and simple. It will play tunes and shoot arrows.

If you guys are seriously trying to take this argument to the balance aspect of things, you really must have run out of speculations to argue over. It's just petty nitpicking at this point.

Yoshi made it clear he is a PvP buff. He also repeated many times he is taking great care when it comes to class/job balance. If anyone thinks Bard will have the same sheer attack power as Archer with all the musical skills on top of it, I expect them to be greatly disappointed.

Speculation can be fun. It's a combination of educated guesses and hopes. Arguing over speculations as if they are certain is just silly though.