XIV EW Job-Gameplay is Terrible... Why?

Some other thoughts on combo consolidation, sometimes the 'efficient' solution is the wrong solution. While condensing combos does potentially free up hotbar slots, it might ruin the job's gameplay. Removing Kaiten did free up some hotbar space, but it broke the Kenki gauge, and turned SAM, a job that's supposed to be about branching combos, and weaponskills with cast times into a Shinten spam job.

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Originally Posted by Valence

You're obviously not reading what I'm writing so I don't see the point in continuing this farce.

Maybe i'm not properly reading or understanding what you're writing either and it's clear we're probably talking about different things.

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Here's the best way to explain it to you, you can consolidate a Job like BRD to mashing 1 over and over and it would probably work, but it would kill the feed back of a tank job or melee job, and it would make playing a job like BLM disgusting, not all jobs do well in consolidation, adding more wouldn;t fix issues.

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Originally Posted by Valence

Since you mention MCH on the other hand, there is literally nothing left to salvage on that job. It has a 1-2-3 combo filler that serves no purpose besides keeping you busy pressing the same loop until the next carpal tunnel hypercharge. MCH still has a lot of room left on hotbars for the very reason that ShB rework left it so barebones that 2 bars were enough to fit everything... Until they added chainsaw and brought back the wrench more recently. This on its own is telling of the sad state of the job considering not only there is a lot of room left, but the base combo could be compressed and we wouldn't even be losing anything... We would actually go back to a 2 hotbar job because that's essentially what the 1-2-3 combo is hiding.

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This is unique to ranged physical specificaly because SE doesn't even know what they want to do with BRD and MCH, they've both been gutted for DNC and thats been the consensus for a while now. Also most people, including myself don't even know why they reworked MCH the way they did due to it only needing around 3 more seconds on Wildfire. And in the end, all the simplicity and boringness, and easiness everyones tired of in content, all leads back to the change of when we burst in content. This wasn't an issue before EW, and is now an issue because of the one change that happned in EW, which is the 2 min burst system/meta.

So your point about adding in Job complexity by consolidating buttons and adding more, only stands because OF the 2 min meta existing, if it didn;t and we had the old system, no one would be having these complaints.

It's that simple.

Gonna be a broken record, but the biggest shakeup to BRD, and MCH's gameplay would be to add PVP style walking casts. Like, they are far from BLM level of casting, but they're still casts so managing instant weaponskills would become a point of complexity.

I'd be fine with Blast Charge on MCH. I think if the Ammo mechanic were to return to MCH in a reworked fashion it could create some interesting interactions. I know people are still apprehensive to the idea of bow mage though, so I won't speak for BRD. (Powerful Shot blows Burst Shot out of the water and it's not even close, though.)

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Originally Posted by strawberrycake

And in the end, all the simplicity and boringness, and easiness everyones tired of in content, all leads back to the change of when we burst in content. This wasn't an issue before EW, and is now an issue because of the one change that happned in EW, which is the 2 min burst system/meta.

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I'd argue it was absolutely already a creeping problem in Shadowbringers, but limited almost entirely to tanks (really only Warrior and Dark Knight), healers and the phys ranged that weren't dancer.
Endwalker just followed ShB's awful design philosophy even further and amplified it tenfold by making everything some kind of divisor for 120 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

I'd argue it was absolutely already a creeping problem in Shadowbringers, but limited almost entirely to tanks (really only Warrior and Dark Knight), healers and the phys ranged that weren't dancer.
Endwalker just followed ShB's awful design philosophy even further and amplified it tenfold by making everything some kind of divisor for 120 seconds.

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Yeah I feel like things weren't bad, and could have been fixes with some minor tweaking, and some things being made more intuitive, but instead of adding in tutorials and better explinations we just, gutted it all.

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Originally Posted by strawberrycake

Here's the best way to explain it to you, you can consolidate a Job like BRD to mashing 1 over and over and it would probably work, but it would kill the feed back of a tank job or melee job, and it would make playing a job like BLM disgusting, not all jobs do well in consolidation, adding more wouldn;t fix issues.

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What does bard or black mage have to do with a 1-2-3 combo? What are you talking about? Making bard (the only remaining 100% proc job in the game) a 1 button spamm would be totally stupid. BLM I don't even want to know how that would even be possible anyway.

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Originally Posted by strawberrycake

Also most people, including myself don't even know why they reworked MCH the way they did due to it only needing around 3 more seconds on Wildfire.

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Adding 3s on wildfire wouldnt have fixed the issue. Stacks would however, and it's been proposed since forever back in SB already, but they only decided to finally cave in this expansion. As a reminder, ShB/EW MCH, as bland as it is, was still as sensitive if not more so to latency problems than SB MCH was, because SB MCH had the luxury of having a functional high ping rotation, unlike current MCH. Fortunately, the stacks on HC we have now fixed the issue.

Also, WF wasn't even the problem in SB, the overheat window was.

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Originally Posted by strawberrycake

And in the end, all the simplicity and boringness, and easiness everyones tired of in content, all leads back to the change of when we burst in content. This wasn't an issue before EW, and is now an issue because of the one change that happned in EW, which is the 2 min burst system/meta.

So your point about adding in Job complexity by consolidating buttons and adding more, only stands because OF the 2 min meta existing, if it didn;t and we had the old system, no one would be having these complaints.

It's that simple.

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Are you still replying to me here? We already bursted every 2min except for tanks and bard/blm. MCH sure bursted every 2min as well, even when it looped on a 60s or 60-120s burst pattern (are we even still talking about mch??). I sure as hell was already furious in shb with the 1-2-3 combo on mch. We even had less buttons than we have today on top of it.

Again, what does the 2min burst meta have to do with combos? Aren't you the one trolling at this point? Why do you keep systematically going back to the 2min meta?

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

I'd argue it was absolutely already a creeping problem in Shadowbringers, but limited almost entirely to tanks (really only Warrior and Dark Knight), healers and the phys ranged that weren't dancer.
Endwalker just followed ShB's awful design philosophy even further and amplified it tenfold by making everything some kind of divisor for 120 seconds.

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Agreed, the biggest changes happened in SHB, not in EW. EW just compounded on the issue by doubling down on the design. People are only waking up now, but it's been bad for more than 5 years already.

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Originally Posted by Valence

What does bard or black mage have to do with a 1-2-3 combo? What are you talking about? Making bard (the only remaining 100% proc job in the game) a 1 button spamm would be totally stupid. BLM I don't even want to know how that would even be possible anyway.




Adding 3s on wildfire wouldnt have fixed the issue. Stacks would however, and it's been proposed since forever back in SB already, but they only decided to finally cave in this expansion. As a reminder, ShB/EW MCH, as bland as it is, was still as sensitive if not more so to latency problems than SB MCH was, because SB MCH had the luxury of having a functional high ping rotation, unlike current MCH. Fortunately, the stacks on HC we have now fixed the issue.

Also, WF wasn't even the problem in SB, the overheat window was.



Are you still replying to me here? We already bursted every 2min except for tanks and bard/blm. MCH sure bursted every 2min as well, even when it looped on a 60s or 60-120s burst pattern (are we even still talking about mch??). I sure as hell was already furious in shb with the 1-2-3 combo on mch. We even had less buttons than we have today on top of it.

Again, what does the 2min burst meta have to do with combos? Aren't you the one trolling at this point? Why do you keep systematically going back to the 2min meta?

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But we didn't burst every two min in ShB, that didn;t happen until EW. But if you wanna live in a world where consolidated combos work(they won't) then sure.

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Originally Posted by strawberrycake

But we didn't burst every two min in ShB, that didn;t happen until EW. But if you wanna live in a world where consolidated combos work(they won't) then sure.

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They would absolutely work for all jobs that only have a single combo (like Dark Knight for example) because they always press 1-2-3 in that exact order already anyway.

I wouldn't be a fan of it because, as I explained before, I find pressing the exact same button for 50+% of a fight extremely boring, hell even with our current split combos it is already incredibly boring when you spend 45 seconds every minute just spamming your filler.

The question isn't "Would they work on some jobs?" but "Would they actually improve gameplay?".
You'd have to put your trust into the devs actually adding meaningful additions with the button space created from consolidating combos, trust I certainly don't have after 5 years of bad job design.